# Why do people say "an octave louder"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 10, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719 "2016-01-10T19:37:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/21 "2016-01-11T12:42:10Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > It could make sense: “Play an octave; now play an octave louder.” But correct English would be “… now play that octave more loudly.” “Louder” is a perfectly correct synonym for “more loudly”. (And for many adverbs, the -er form is the _only_ correct comparative. For example, you can say “play an octave faster”, but not “play an octave more fast” or “play an octave more fastly”.) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/22 "2016-01-11T12:50:13Z")
It’s been light-years since I’ve heard anyone use that phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/23 "2016-01-11T12:55:27Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > It’s been light-years since I’ve heard anyone use that phrase. Which would make the expression (metaphor?) ambiguous: It could mean either: (1) you have actually heard somebody use the phrase before, but it was a long time ago or (2) you have never heard somebody use the phrase before. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/24 "2016-01-11T13:02:22Z")
Or it could be that I was making a dumb but appropriate joke by misusing the term “light years” as if it were a unit of time rather than one of distance. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/25 "2016-01-11T13:21:41Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Or it could be that I was making a dumb but appropriate joke by misusing the term “light years” as if it were a unit of time rather than one of distance. Right. This would add a couple of inches to the original weight of the expression. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/26 "2016-01-11T16:25:27Z")
Actually, a “quantum leap” doesn’t refer to any particular distance: It just refers to getting from point A to point B without ever meaningfully being at any point in between. Which is a fair enough layman’s description of what happens in a real quantum leap. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/27 "2016-01-11T17:06:54Z")
> [@Totenfeier](#): > > I _think_ the _Millenium_ _Falcon’s_ hyperdrive motivator has to go an octave louder to have _any_ hope of making the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs. 😃 You do realize there is both a canon answer to this as well as a plausible real world answer that bogh make that work right? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/28 "2016-01-11T17:19:00Z")
Who’s bogh? ---
**Author:** ![Totenfeier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@Totenfeier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Totenfeier)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/29 "2016-01-11T17:53:23Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > You do realize there is both a canon answer to this as well as a plausible real world answer that bogh make that work right? Yup; I know the canon answer. What’s the real-world one? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/30 "2016-01-11T17:54:01Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > It could be tongue-in-cheek. The person does know that volume isn’t measured in “octaves”. I would interpret it to mean: Just a little bit louder… 11:8=One Tufnel. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/31 "2016-01-11T18:05:31Z")
It belongs in the same category as Han Solo making the Kessel run “in 12 parsecs”. i.e., it’s bullshit. > [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > For those that aren’t aware, “octave” does indeed come from eight, and it’s how musical steps are divided in Western music (do re me fa so la ti do, or ABCDEFGA, which is eight steps to the next octave). > > There are many non-Western musical scales which do not divide the scale into 8 sections, and when you include semitones, the Western scale actually ends up having **12 notes** instead of 8 between octaves. (emphasis added by me) 13, not 12. Eight notes to get from one note to its next octave, such as from A to next A, using our conventional major (or natural minor) scale; 13 to get from one A to the next using halfsteps the entire way. A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G# A ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/32 "2016-01-11T18:14:39Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > You do realize there is both a canon answer to this as well as a plausible real world answer that bogh make that work right? A canon at the octave? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/33 "2016-01-11T18:22:22Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > It belongs in the same category as Han Solo making the Kessel run “in 12 parsecs”. > > i.e., it’s bullshit. > > (emphasis added by me) > > 13, not 12. Eight notes to get from one note to its next octave, such as from A to next A, using our conventional major (or natural minor) scale; 13 to get from one A to the next using halfsteps the entire way. > > A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G# A Well, I guess it depends on whether you count the octave note or not. I would call a diatonic scale a 7-tone scale, and a chromatic a twelve tone one. There’s only seven unique tones in an octave in a diatonic scale. Just like you don’t count the octave in a pentatonic. It’s a five note scale, not six. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/34 "2016-01-12T03:21:34Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Well, I guess it depends on whether you count the octave note or not. I would call a diatonic scale a 7-tone scale, and a chromatic a twelve tone one. There’s only seven unique tones in an octave in a diatonic scale. Just like you don’t count the octave in a pentatonic. It’s a five note scale, not six. I would accept either descriptive approach, but I was replying to **engineer\_comp\_geek** who described the octave as having 8 notes and comparing that to the semitone scale which was then described as having 12. It has to be either 7 and 12 or else 8 and 13, for consistency. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/35 "2016-01-12T04:21:50Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I would accept either descriptive approach, but I was replying to **engineer\_comp\_geek** who described the octave as having 8 notes and comparing that to the semitone scale which was then described as having 12. > > It has to be either 7 and 12 or else 8 and 13, for consistency. This makes no sense. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/36 "2016-01-12T05:40:28Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I would accept either descriptive approach, but I was replying to **engineer\_comp\_geek** who described the octave as having 8 notes and comparing that to the semitone scale which was then described as having 12. > > It has to be either 7 and 12 or else 8 and 13, for consistency. If you count to 13 you are going to be counting to 11 for the next octave you go down, unless you want to really confuse yourself and lose the plot. There are 12 unique pitch classes. It’s only confusing to say 13. An octave though implies that you are repeating the tonic at the end. You know that going in but you aren’t counting keys or frets to do it. Not confusing. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/37 "2016-01-12T06:07:06Z")
When you’re freaking PLAYING a semitone scale you play 13 notes. Just like when you’re playing a standard major scale you play 8. Yes, a standard major scale has only 7 unique notes (the octave is a duplicate of the note you started on) and, similarly, a semitone scale has only 12 unique notees (the octive is, once again, a duplicate of the note you started on. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/38 "2016-01-12T20:20:38Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > I’ve never heard anyone say that. When I was a teenager, practicing my electric guitar, my dad once asked me to “turn it down a couple octaves”. I’m a bass player now. ---
**Author:** ![Strainger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strainger/32/244_2.png) [@Strainger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strainger)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/39 "2016-01-12T21:17:55Z")
I’ve heard it as a punchline to a joke told by a military musician about a clueless colonel. Never heard anyone use it for reals. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719/40 "2016-01-12T21:28:59Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > This makes no sense. Just sayin’. What part of it doesn’t make sense? To be consistent, he’s right: it’s either 7 & 12 or 8 & 13 for both scales from octave to octave. However, for whatever reason, people tend to double count the octave in a diatonic scale for 8 notes (I guess to have “octave” make sense, although a major or minor scale is heptatonic, not octatonic), but not in the chromatic scale. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-say-an-octave-louder/742719.md?page=3)