# Why do people split tens in Blackjack? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** board-card-word-game\ **Created:** [June 20, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-split-tens-in-blackjack/966528 "2022-06-20T22:15:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-split-tens-in-blackjack/966528/21 "2022-06-22T14:13:45Z")
> [@Folly](#): > > I assume they are least doing it against a dealer 6? Still against the rules strategy of course, but nothing is as boring to me in a casino as playing blackjack while strictly following a set of rules. I know someone who does it for this exact reason – to alleviate boredom (he’s not a dedicated gambler) with the side benefit of irritating uptight players who feel that splitting tens is sacrilege. I haven’t done the math, but I suspect that mathematically it’s not a terrible play in many instances. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-split-tens-in-blackjack/966528/22 "2022-06-22T16:21:04Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > I haven’t done the math, but I suspect that mathematically it’s not a terrible play in many instances. It’s pretty terrible; it’s a very substantial loss of expected value. Against a 6, splitting tens loses you .17 of a bet versus standing. That’s a lot, really. Against a decent dealer’s card, it’s horrifically bad. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-split-tens-in-blackjack/966528/23 "2022-06-22T16:33:37Z")
You’re right… clearly not a good bet. Personally, I don’t even care whether it’s a good bet or not, I leave the table as soon a someone splits tens because it slows down play – pairs of ten happen a lot – and that drives me insane. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-split-tens-in-blackjack/966528/24 "2022-06-22T16:34:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > a table with stains on it at the Del Lago just outside Rochester and they have little to worry about from card counters, but card counters aren’t bothering at the Del Lago. And it probably pays 6:5 which automatically makes it an unplayable game. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-split-tens-in-blackjack/966528/25 "2022-06-22T17:46:29Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > And it probably pays 6:5 which automatically makes it an unplayable game. That’s an increasingly common thing to see, yeah. Blackjack is the one and only game I will ever play except poker, and only if I am waiting for a poker seat, but if the blackjacks are six to five, never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-split-tens-in-blackjack/966528/26 "2022-06-22T17:58:00Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > Personally, I don’t even care whether it’s a good bet or not, I leave the table as soon a someone splits tens because it slows down play There you go, then, it’s a significant monetary benefit to all of the other players, because slowing play brings you closer to the optimal strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-split-tens-in-blackjack/966528/27 "2022-06-22T20:03:43Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Edward Thorp and John Scarne are the only authors to recommend splitting tens. Every other author and gambler, and computer simulation I’ve seen recommends against it. I read one article where the program ran 20 million simulations and came up with splitting tens a bad idea. > > The average Joe sitting at the table is either not going to count cards or won’t be very good at it. So this makes splitting tens even a worse idea. Scarne and Thorp should not be mentioned together when it comes to blackjack. Scarne was an old-time gambler with ‘intuition’. Thorp was a math professor running numerical simulations. Scarne was wrong about blackjack a lot. Thorp was not. The difference is that Scarne thought splitting tens is a good idea in general, while Thorp very rigorously showed that it was a bad move except in the cases I already mentioned. I’m guessing you haven’t read much of the literature on card counting, because splitting tens in certain counts is in every counting strategy table I’ve ever seen. I even gave you the specific hi-lo true count where the move breaks even. Again, there’s no room for opinion here. The math is irrefutable. When you get to a certain high percentage of 10-value cards remaining in a deck, it is mathematically correct to split tens. This is not controversial. Whether you _should_ split tens is another matter. It increases variance and exposes you to pit scrutiny. However, if you are not betting ‘green to black’ (i.e. $25 to $200 spreads or more per hand), the house likely won’t care. A card counter playing $10 limits won’t make minimum wage, and they are good advertising. And most small limit counters who think they are beating the house make enough mistakes or don’t spread their bets enough to actually win. The house loves them. But show up in a high stakes pit, play minimum bets for a while then suddenly raise your bet after some low cards go by, and you’ll be watched. Split tens at +6, and that’s probably the last hand you’ll play in that casino. Mathematically correct, but strategically stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-split-tens-in-blackjack/966528/28 "2022-06-22T20:16:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There you go, then, it’s a significant monetary benefit to all of the other players, because slowing play brings you closer to the optimal strategy. The optimal strategy being don’t play at all? True enough for those interested in keeping their money. But I’m a gambler who subscribes to: “The next best thing to gambling & winning is gambling & losing” – Nick the Greek (I think) The play is the thing ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-split-tens-in-blackjack/966528/29 "2022-06-22T20:30:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Speaking for myself, I have heard/read enough about blackjack to know that most strategy assumes the next card will be a 10. So I always assumed that you should split 10s if the dealer has a weak hand because you might get two twenties, as the man said. I’ve just learned otherwise. There are four 10-value cards in each suit (10,Jack, Queen, King), an Ace, and 8 other cards. In a full deck that’s 20 cards that are either 10-valued or an Ace, and 32 that aren’t. So it’s not true that the next card is likely to be a 10 or A. Especially so of you already have two of them in your hand. Any strategy that assumes the next card is a ten is a losing strategy. That’s the logic behind people playing ‘never bust’ where they stand on anything 12 or up - a truly lousy strategy that costs people who follow it a lot of money. Again, blackjack strategy is deterministic, and solved. There are no guesses, no room for opinion. Perfect play varies based on specific rules and how many decks are in the shoe, and that’s about it. Here’s an example of proper basic strategy: > **[4-Deck to 8-Deck Blackjack Strategy - Wizard of Odds](https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/4-decks/)** > > The original, world-famous strategy charts for 4-deck to 8-deck blackjack by the Wizard of Odds. Learn these tables, and you will be exactly as good as the best non- counting blackjack players in the world. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-split-tens-in-blackjack/966528/30 "2022-06-22T20:39:34Z")
I studied card gambling a back in the day and became a self taught expert. I did ok at it in that I kept a spreadsheet and made a profit over the long run. That said, my profit came out to about $2.50 an hour until I got bored of it and didn’t care to get better. I nearly always made enough to pay for my Vegas weekend when you throw in the comps that I got. Anyway, for anyone who is interested, @Sam_Stone is teaching a master class here and if you have any interest in the subject you should pay attention. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-split-tens-in-blackjack/966528/31 "2022-06-22T20:54:47Z")
Thanks. I too got bored with blackjack. And it gets even more boring as you move up in limits, as you have to spend time and effort camouflaging your play. You also have to move from casino to casino a lot. If you are playing serious money, one high count shoe is all you get, then you have to pack up and leave before they get enough data on your play go ‘make’ you as a counter. Poker is more fun, more profitable, and the casino actually likes having you around so it’s more relaxing and comfortable as well. But I haven’t played much of that lately either. Covid killed live games, and I’m not a huge fan of online poker. Too many bots, too many aid programs that allow players to track everyone’s play. I helped write one of them. If you are up against someone with the one I consulted on, they get a display showing exactly how you have bet and what cards you have shown from every position under every situation. If you don’t have the same, you’re at a disadvantage. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-split-tens-in-blackjack/966528/32 "2022-06-22T21:13:56Z")
I did best at limit HE in the 90s and in the early days of online poker. That was some easy pickings. Eventually everyone became an expert and it got way too complicated for me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-split-tens-in-blackjack/966528.md?page=1)