# Why do people still believe in God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228 "2005-12-19T00:51:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/101 "2005-12-20T22:24:21Z")
> [@kelvinator](#): > > I agree faith can sometimes be misplaced. Sometimes faith can be tested. Sometimes faith can even be lost. With all of the personal problems and losses in my life, I would never claim to understand why things happen. If a creator is not actively involved and just started us down the Hot Wheel track of life, that is not up to me. If we just bounce along haphazardly like a ping-pong ball in a dryer, that’s not up to me either. > I have a hard time believing, though, that the order and exquisite exactness of nature and physics could happen randomly. > Yeah, earthquakes, tornadoes and tsunami’s happen. Cancer kills devout people, lightning strikes churches and helpless babies die every day. But in a world full of misery, I can look beyond the physics of refracting light through suspended water and be in awe of a rainbow. I can see beyond the rules of genetics and DNA and see the smile of my daughter. I can stare past erosion and geology and weep at the beauty of the Grand Canyon. I have found that behind the mechanics of the universe, is the artistry of God. I can, and have, done all those things without a god. The stars are even more beautiful when you know what they really are. Knowing I am evolutionarily driven to love my kids didn’t make me love them any less. The universe is not random, or not totally random. Planets move by the laws of gravity. Stars shine by fusion. Perhaps in 50 years we’ll understand why there is something instead of nothing. Not having it all cooked ahead of time makes life more valuable to me. Plus, I have the advantage of not wondering why bad things happen. Weather and geology care nothing for us. We as humans can challenge them, the best we can, and we can band together to mitigate the pain and damage they cause, but we never have to worry if we were in some way responsible. The world is all about variation and imperfection, but if the world never threw troubles in our way why would we advance? So much religion teaches that it is our fault, through original sin or whatever. It’s not our fault. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/102 "2005-12-20T22:25:36Z")
> [@homeskillet](#): > > Yeah, consciousness is a tricky one sometimes, but why would it necessitate a creator any more than just plain ol’ matter? Because it’s _consciousness_. As close to certain as you are that there’s no God, \*I’m that close \* to certain that rocks aren’t conscious. Gravity isn’t conscious. Light isn’t conscious. Computers aren’t conscious. I can take matter, and very carefully construct something, and give it a mechanism to maintain energy, but it wouldn’t be conscious. We are. What’s the difference between us and the other stuff? I agree with you, btw, about enjoying the ride. Existence of a qualitative difference between intelligent life, and stuff, does not imply any sort of afterlife. Although I have no idea what happens to that ‘thing,’ if it exists, either. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/103 "2005-12-20T22:34:13Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > No it wouldnt actually, because nothing I good give you would be testable, so therefore, it wouldnt be acceptable. You misunderstand testability. Evidence is not testable, hypotheses are. For instance say many people have personal experiences of god. There is no evidence beyond their statements. If the hypothesis is that they had contact with some real entity, we can examine their statements for consistency beyond that which can be explained by the social environment. If they make predictions we can test these. If they say they have knowledge beyond what they would have without this contact, we can test that. > [@](#): > > A reasoned argument is good currency…give me one that shows me no God exists. Just remember that no proof \<\> proof. To be clear, im not in the ID camp…not at all. The Big Bang, evoloution, love em all. So dont bother refuting ID claims as proof of no God. Which god? Krishna? Zeus? Jesus? The deity of Aldeberan 5? The fact that humans have invented thousands of gods means that the default belief should be that none of them exist, and anyone claiming otherwise needs to present solid evidence. Certain types of gods I can disprove logically, others can’t be disproven even in principle. Why do you choose one over the other with no evidence? I submit it is because of your upbringing and social circumstances, and if you were born 2,000 years ago you would believe in Jupiter or a tribal god with equal fervor. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/104 "2005-12-20T22:38:00Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I can take matter, and very carefully construct something, and give it a mechanism to maintain energy, but it wouldn’t be conscious. Sure you could, if you had the right materials and Know-how. Consciousness isn’t magic. The human brain is nothing but matter. Consciousness is explainable entirely in physical terms. It’s nothing but chemistry- _complex_ chemistry but chemistry nonetheless. What aspect of human consciousness do you believe requires a supernatral explanation? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/105 "2005-12-20T22:45:22Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Sure you could, if you had the right materials and Know-how. Consciousness isn’t magic. The human brain is nothing but matter. Consciousness is explainable entirely in physical terms. It’s nothing but chemistry- _complex_ chemistry but chemistry nonetheless. > > What aspect of human consciousness do you believe requires a supernatral explanation? The self-awareness part. Who in there are the chemical actions reporting to? I’m not getting how consciousness could be explained in physical terms. I don’t think I could bring about consciousness, even if I had the right materials and could make something very like a working brain. I won’t say ‘make a brain,’ because that’s begging the question. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/106 "2005-12-20T22:58:46Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Consciousness is explainable entirely in physical terms. Then explain it, please. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/107 "2005-12-20T23:05:38Z")
> [@bup](#): > > The self-awareness part. Who in there are the chemical actions reporting to? The chemical actions ARE the “who.” > [@](#): > > I’m not getting how consciousness could be explained in physical terms. I don’t think I could bring about consciousness, even if I had the right materials and could make something very like a working brain. I won’t say ‘make a brain,’ because that’s begging the question. Only if you think the brain is not made of matter or that consciousness is not produced purely by the brain. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/108 "2005-12-20T23:10:36Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Then explain it, please. Sophistry. I don’t have the burden anyway. Please tell me what part requires a supernatural explanation and why. ---
**Author:** ![homeskillet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7ba0ec/32.png) [@homeskillet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/homeskillet)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/109 "2005-12-20T23:27:32Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Because it’s _consciousness_. > > As close to certain as you are that there’s no God, \*I’m that close \* to certain that rocks aren’t conscious. Gravity isn’t conscious. Light isn’t conscious. Computers aren’t conscious. > > I can take matter, and very carefully construct something, and give it a mechanism to maintain energy, but it wouldn’t be conscious. We are. > > What’s the difference between us and the other stuff? > > I agree with you, btw, about enjoying the ride. Existence of a qualitative difference between intelligent life, and stuff, does not imply any sort of afterlife. Although I have no idea what happens to that ‘thing,’ if it exists, either. I understand what you mean, but I can’t really see why consciousness is anymore special than just plain ol’ matter. Because it doesn’t seem as tangible? Why have any of it at all? I wouldn’t consider any of those things conscious either, but none mentioned have a highly developed set of senses and a means to process those sensations. As remarkable and hard to define as consciousness is, it really seems to me to be just be the product of a being able to take in and process information. Obviously this a whole other can of worms, but what about artificial intelligence? We’re not there yet, but it’s not unreasonable to say that we may, in the very near future have a machine (matter, mechanism, energy) that would be indistinguishable from human intelligence. And for arguments sake (if it looks like a duck… ) let’s say the computer is conscious. Does that then make us god? I’m having a hard time seeing how that would prove anything other than my assertion in the above paragraph. And just for the record, I’m not that certain there isn’t a “god”, just a not a god in the traditional big man in the sky sense. I would love it if our consciousness meant we had some sort of eternal soul, but from practical standpoint, I’m not gonna hedge any bets on it. ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/110 "2005-12-20T23:29:19Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I can, and have, done all those things without a god. The stars are even more beautiful when you know what they really are. Knowing I am evolutionarily driven to love my kids didn’t make me love them any less. > > The universe is not random, or not totally random. Planets move by the laws of gravity. Stars shine by fusion. Perhaps in 50 years we’ll understand why there is something instead of nothing. Not having it all cooked ahead of time makes life more valuable to me. > > Plus, I have the advantage of not wondering why bad things happen. Weather and geology care nothing for us. We as humans can challenge them, the best we can, and we can band together to mitigate the pain and damage they cause, but we never have to worry if we were in some way responsible. The world is all about variation and imperfection, but if the world never threw troubles in our way why would we advance? > > So much religion teaches that it is our fault, through original sin or whatever. It’s not our fault. If global warming is true, then changes in weather can certainly be attributed to us. 🙂 (not all, but some) ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/111 "2005-12-21T01:21:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Sophistry. > > I don’t have the burden anyway. Please tell me what part requires a supernatural explanation and why. Since it is you that claimed consciousness is explainable in entirely physical terms why isn’t the burden yours? I wouldn’t say consciousness requires supernatural explainations. I would say that there is much about the nature of consciousness that remains unexplained. Why would we assume that what we “know” now is anywhere close to all there is to know. Perhaps we understand a mere 3 or 4% of what is available and there are things yet to understand which we barely concieve of now and is only hinted at by certain mythology and wild theories. Hasn’t that been the pattern in science? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/112 "2005-12-21T01:37:32Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Since it is you that claimed consciousness is explainable in entirely physical terms why isn’t the burden yours? Occam’s Razor again. One should assume a purely physical process unless there is evidence that something else is necessary. It’s the logical burden of those who claim some “non-physical” process ( whatever that means ) is involved to prove its existence. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/113 "2005-12-21T01:53:39Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Since it is you that claimed consciousness is explainable in entirely physical terms why isn’t the burden yours? No. The burden is upon those who assert the existence of magic to prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_Voldything](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c37758/32.png) [@Lady\_Voldything](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_Voldything)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/114 "2005-12-21T03:15:50Z")
Why? Because people need something to hang on to. For most people, the idea that we are utterly alone and that there is no divine Mommy or Daddy to look up to is chillingly abhorrent and depressing. I personally don’t believe that true atheists exist. My mother was Superatheist since I was three months old- she thought anybody who believed in any sort of divine power was just plain stupid, and relied solely on science. She recently joined a Baptist Church. Nobody stays an atheist forever. Because atheism is damn hopeless. That’s why religion exists- it’s a damn sight better to most people than going around thinking that they are just tiny dots in all of existence and that their lives are totally meaningless. It’s like that thing from the Hitchhiker’s Trilogy- that the worst thing in the world was to see, just for one second, just how important you really are. The sheer shock of your own insignificance drove you instantly insane. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/115 "2005-12-21T03:32:20Z")
> [@Lady Voldything](#): > > Why? Because people need something to hang on to. For most people, the idea that we are utterly alone and that there is no divine Mommy or Daddy to look up to is chillingly abhorrent and depressing. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest. > [@](#): > > I personally don’t believe that true atheists exist. Guess again. > [@](#): > > Nobody stays an atheist forever. Sure they do. > [@](#): > > Because atheism is damn hopeless. How so? > [@](#): > > That’s why religion exists- it’s a damn sight better to most people than going around thinking that they are just tiny dots in all of existence and that their lives are totally meaningless. It doesn’t bother me, but even if it did it would not be an argument for the existence of God. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/116 "2005-12-21T03:54:56Z")
> [@Lady Voldything](#): > > Why? Because people need something to hang on to. Odd. I’m not religious, yet somehow I have avoided melting into a puddle. > [@Lady Voldything](#): > > For most people, the idea that we are utterly alone and that there is no divine Mommy or Daddy to look up to is chillingly abhorrent and depressing. So you are saying religious people never mature past childhood emotionally ? You religious folk seem to think humanity is composed of utter losers; we need a God so we can clutch at it in our neediness, and we need a God to define our morality so we don’t lay waste to everything. We _don’t_ need a god, real or imaginary. Millions of people do just fine without one. > [@Lady Voldything](#): > > I personally don’t believe that true atheists exist. My mother was Superatheist since I was three months old- she thought anybody who believed in any sort of divine power was just plain stupid, and relied solely on science. > > She recently joined a Baptist Church. There’s evidence religiousity is genetic/biochemical; I’d guess some sort of complusion set in. > [@Lady Voldything](#): > > Nobody stays an atheist forever. Prove it. > [@Lady Voldything](#): > > Because atheism is damn hopeless. Nonsense; it’s theism which is hopeless. If there is no God, we can hope to improve ourselves and the world. If there _is_ a god, we are all doomed and damned. Only an evil god would let the world stay as it is, and an evil god who bothered to make an afterlife would of course make it a hell with no heaven. > [@Lady Voldything](#): > > That’s why religion exists- it’s a damn sight better to most people than going around thinking that they are just tiny dots in all of existence and that their lives are totally meaningless. Our lives have meaning if we choose it. If the meaning/purpose of life is imposed from outside by a god, then we are all tools or toys; I fail to see why that’s such a desirable outcome. > [@Lady Voldything](#): > > It’s like that thing from the Hitchhiker’s Trilogy- that the worst thing in the world was to see, just for one second, just how important you really are. The sheer shock of your own insignificance drove you instantly insane. Those books were meant as humor, you know. I rather prefer insignifigance; it means less responsibility and I’m a smaller target. After all, that’s why I don’t need someone like the Secret Service to protect me. ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/117 "2005-12-21T04:48:26Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Nonsense; it’s theism which is hopeless. If there is no God, we can hope to improve ourselves and the world. If there is a god, we are all doomed and damned. Only an evil god would let the world stay as it is, and an evil god who bothered to make an afterlife would of course make it a hell with no heaven. You’re implying a fundamentalist view of God; where God is conscious of what is going on in the world. Not all theists believe this. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/118 "2005-12-21T04:58:38Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Occam’s Razor again. One should assume a purely physical process unless there is evidence that something else is necessary. It’s the logical burden of those who claim some “non-physical” process ( whatever that means ) is involved to prove its existence. I didn’t claim anything other than there is a crapload we don’t know about consciousness. I don’t think that violates OR. I agree we can assume something, some assuming purely physical and others assuming something else. Neither is proof only personal preference based on individual experiences and backgrounds. When it comes to facts, …the fact is we just don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/119 "2005-12-21T05:14:26Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > No. The burden is upon those who assert the existence of magic to prove it. Who’s talking magic? Acknowledging the possibilities based on an honest recognition of the limits of our knowledge is hardly that. Based on what we know and considering what we think very likely, what possibilities remain open, concerning consciousness? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228/120 "2005-12-21T05:30:29Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > So you are saying religious people never mature past childhood emotionally ? You religious folk seem to think humanity is composed of utter losers; we need a God so we can clutch at it in our neediness, and we need a God to define our morality so we don’t lay waste to everything. > > We _don’t_ need a god, real or imaginary. Millions of people do just fine without one. Are you kidding me? You’ve said in other threads that mankind is basically losers. Now you put those words in someone elses mouth. > [@](#): > > Nonsense; it’s theism which is hopeless. If there is no God, we can hope to improve ourselves and the world. If there _is_ a god, we are all doomed and damned. Only an evil god would let the world stay as it is, and an evil god who bothered to make an afterlife would of course make it a hell with no heaven. For some. There are millions more believers from many organized religions and from no organized religion that are doing fine and making contributions to society. > [@](#): > > Our lives have meaning if we choose it. I agree > [@](#): > > If the meaning/purpose of life is imposed from outside by a god, then we are all tools or toys; I fail to see why that’s such a desirable outcome. Me neither. That’s why lots of folks with deep spiritual beliefs reject that notion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-still-believe-in-god/336228.md?page=7)