# Why do people who aren't rich care how much in taxes rich people pay? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 3, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663 "2017-08-03T00:39:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/41 "2017-08-03T11:58:19Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Thanks for your response. The thing is, most people in the US will NOT be any more generous by raising taxes on those making $200K or more. Or a $1 Million or more. Yet they still think that’s a bad idea. Disturbs me, really. Mostly because I just don’t get it, and I hate not understanding something, especially when around 33% of Americans think it. Ah. I wasn’t clear. I was referring both to people who support helping the poor, AND people who support tax breaks for the rich. They are separate groups, for the most part, and are have separate reasons. But all the reasons come down to self-interest at their base. The ones who want to give money to the poor, don’t actually do it as much as they want to think they do, “just to be nice.” That’s why the more recent admonitions from the left, to give more because “we really really should,” have fallen on deaf ears. They give money to the poor, because they think it will make THEIR OWN LIVES directly better. Things like keeping the poor from rising up and robbing them, or even just keeping them from having to deal with street beggars. Notice that a lot of the complaints from the people who want to STOP helping the poor, include some mention that no matter how much they do so, there are still people asking for cash accosting them in the street, and still people breaking into other peoples cars and houses to steal? Self-interest. The reason why it’s become so popular to want to give THE RICHEST people extra money, is because a lot of people have been LIED TO, and told that “rich people are the investors who drive the economy, and if you don’t give them lots and lots of money, they will stop doing that, and you’ll lose your job.” Again, pure self-interest is at the base of it. ``` That's a flat out lie, though. Rich people don't invest in a business because they have extra money lying around. They invest, again, for pure self interest. ``` The ONLY reason to expand or start a business, is if you think you will have a lot of CUSTOMERS buying what you offer. That’s it. When the CUSTOMERS are the ones who are broke, rich people put their money ELSEWHERE. Or hoard it in cash or bullion. The worst of the modern “tax the rich less to fix the economy” BS, is that the people pushing this now, want to get the money to give to the rich, by INCREASING the taxes and expenses on the CUSTOMER CLASSES. They are so insistently stupid (because they are otherwise angry at those groups due to racism, sexism and general testy political resentment), that they refuse to look at historical fact. If they did, they would realize quickly that ALL of the times when ANY nations’ economies have expanded significantly and sustainably, it has ALWAYS been because the largest part of the society had extra money to spend. We all have a good time when THE CUSTOMER CLASSES are well off, and are spending their money. Historically, whenever the RICH people have had lots and lots, and the customer classes have had their incomes held low (to keep costs down!), the economies have ALWAYS stagnated, or even declined. The story of the Middle Ages was exactly that. In the Feudal systems that had the worst situations, it was because the lords made sure that all but the barest minimum needed to keep the peasants alive, was given to them. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/42 "2017-08-03T11:59:01Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The OP is asking why so many of the non-rich OPPOSE the idea. No, in true Doper fashion posters are responding to the question they want to write about, not what the OP asked. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/43 "2017-08-03T12:01:54Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > We could have someone making $50,000 and paying $5000 in tax pay $10,000 instead. That person might have his life-style cramped, and only an additional $5000 is raised. > > Or we could have someone making $2,000,000 a year and paying $150,000 in taxes pay $200,000 instead. Ten times as much money is raised and the millionaire, however mistreated, will get by without applying for food stamps. > > Clear? But if we’re looking at the percentage of population that makes greater than $2 million versus that which makes $50,000. Being absolutely lazy and not wanting to do the research, the mean income in the USA is about $74,000, and the median is about $51,000 (a pretty big gap!), so given the 1% fallacy, let’s say there are 99 people who earn $50,000 versus 1 who makes $2 million. How does your math look now? And, yeah, there’s a lot wrong with my assumptions, except for the picture it paints. Your example doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/44 "2017-08-03T12:04:48Z")
Seems to me the OP’s question really comes down to whether one supports a regressive or progressive tax structure. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/45 "2017-08-03T12:16:09Z")
If the OP is really asking why the non-rich are _against_ the idea of the rich paying more taxes, then I think he’s referring to a very small group of people. Generally, few care if the other guy has a big tax bill. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/46 "2017-08-03T12:28:39Z")
If it’s such a small number, you’d think the idea would have garnered more support the last few times it has been proposed. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/47 "2017-08-03T12:37:04Z")
Bloody hell people. Why do people who aren’t rich care how much in taxes rich people pay? Regressive/progressive, for/against…it doesn’t matter. OP cares about OP’s taxes and doesn’t understand why someone else’s taxes matter. As has already been explained, taxes not paid by someone else can mean either more taxes for OP or more borrowing, which can also affect OP. And government revenue affects the availability of government services. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/48 "2017-08-03T12:51:46Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This seems to go against everything I believe about Christianity. You, yes. But look at the popularity of the prosperity gospel and how many well-to-do vocal Christians follow it. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/49 "2017-08-03T13:34:42Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t know. Why DO they oppose it? Why would they care? ARE there people who don’t smoke who are against sin taxes? Because they have principled opposition to imposing taxes on legal behavior, regardless if they will ever engage in it. I think marijauna should be legal, even though I don’t intend to use it. I oppose sin taxes, like cigarette taxes, even though I will never smoke. Just because something doesn’t affect a person personally, doesn’t mean it should be acceptable to punish other people. It’s like opposing racism in the US even though you may be a white person. Or men being feminists. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/50 "2017-08-03T13:36:31Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I find OP’s question to be odd. Not Doper is ignorant, of course, but I wonder if OP posted before drinking his morning coffee. Let me try to help Yeah, sorry. I actually posted AFTER drinking my nightly beer 🙂 But yes, the question should have been “Why don’t non-rich people support higher taxes on rich people?” I appreciate everyone’s thoughts, even if my OP was a little confusing. Funny, I posted the same thing on Facebook - “Why do non-rich people care about the tax rate of rich people” and both conservative and liberal friends of mine liked it. Guess your thoughts on taxation affect the way you read the question. Kind of interesting in and of itself. But yeah, I’m not rich. And if a tax proposal came out saying “We are going to increase the tax rate on those making $1 million or more by 3%” I don’t understand why I wouldn’t be for that. And I definitely don’t understand why I should be against it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/51 "2017-08-03T13:41:32Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Because they have principled opposition to imposing taxes on legal behavior, regardless if they will ever engage in it. I think marijauna should be legal, even though I don’t intend to use it. I oppose sin taxes, like cigarette taxes, even though I will never smoke But this principle only works in practice if you oppose ALL forms of taxation, including sales tax, income tax, whatever other kind of tax is collected. If that is your principle, then that’s fine, but that seems self-limiting to me, unless you also feel that a state or country shouldn’t provide any services to its populace (by you, I mean everyone, not just **Bone** ) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/52 "2017-08-03T13:54:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Taxes are zero sum. If someone else is paying less, that means that I’m paying more. This is the clearest aspect. And a rich person paying a tiny percentage in taxes isn’t going to feel it at all. The trivial Bush I tax increases were a major cause of the budget surpluses of the 90s which just happened to magically coincide with a very major economic boom. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/53 "2017-08-03T13:54:25Z")
No, being against sin taxes isn’t the same as being against all taxes. Is it possible to be against consumption taxes but be in favor of income taxes, or sales taxes, or other forms? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/54 "2017-08-03T13:57:42Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > No, being against sin taxes isn’t the same as being against all taxes. Is it possible to be against consumption taxes but be in favor of income taxes, or sales taxes, or other forms? Maybe, but you said “opposition to imposing taxes on legal behavior” Aren’t ‘buying things’ and ‘earning money by working’ legal behaviors? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/55 "2017-08-03T14:14:01Z")
If you really didn’t understand the distinction, okay yay. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/56 "2017-08-03T14:17:35Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > If you really didn’t understand the distinction, okay yay. I understand the distinction just fine. Perhaps you should alter your stated principle of “opposition to imposing taxes on legal behavior” to something more specific or tailored down? ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/57 "2017-08-03T15:25:10Z")
Ordinary taxes are there to collect money; sin taxes are there to collect money and piously change sinners’ behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/58 "2017-08-03T15:40:59Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Your example doesn’t work. Wrong, the example works fine with real numbers. I used play numbers because I misinterpreted OP’s question. (He wrote “care how much in taxes rich people pay?” which is ambiguous — he wonders why many want to [del]raise[/del] lower taxes on the rich, I’m now told; I thought his was the vice versa.) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/59 "2017-08-03T15:52:21Z")
Hey, I apologized for the ambiguity! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663/60 "2017-08-03T15:57:28Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Why do I, who have never had kids, have to pay taxes to put other people’s kids through school? I always look at those taxes as payment for my education. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-who-arent-rich-care-how-much-in-taxes-rich-people-pay/792663.md?page=4)