# Why do people with good jobs still live out of their cars? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 1, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927 "2018-08-01T13:54:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Carryon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Carryon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carryon)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/101 "2018-08-02T21:38:46Z")
I deal with finding people jobs and almost all these types of situations boil down to the “odd accommodation” starts out as a stop gap, or temporary solution. And then the person adapts to it, or hates to admit they were wrong so it continues. It’s a way of fooling themselves, “Oh I will only have to do this for a week,” and before you know it it turns into a year. Like the man who buys a pack of cigarettes, instead of saving money by buying a carton, saying if he spends more money, he’ll smoke less, but of course he doesn’t. I absolutely love CA and could see the appeal of living there. Also remember too, some of these people are young and you have to think back when you were young. When I was in my twenties, I would travel and sleep on a friend’s couch and there were times, I drove and slept in my car on vacation. Who cared, I was young, life was an adventure. Those days are long behind me now, but that also plays into it. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/102 "2018-08-02T21:41:48Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > And, what’s more, she’s responsible for paying the [self-employment tax](https://www.fool.com/taxes/2018/01/17/self-employment-tax-in-2018-heres-how-much-youll-h.aspx) (which is a not-insignificant chunk of change, at about 15% of your income). Adjuncts are still employees. They get W2s, and pay into STRS in lieu of SS. Depending on the collective bargaining agreement, they probably don’t get any health, unless grandfathered in from a long time ago. In theory they can collect unemployment during summer, but it’s not much, and most would prefer a summer class assignment. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/103 "2018-08-02T21:55:19Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Adjuncts are still employees. They get W2s, and pay into STRS in lieu of SS. Depending on the collective bargaining agreement, they probably don’t get any health, unless grandfathered in from a long time ago. In theory they can collect unemployment during summer, but it’s not much, and most would prefer a summer class assignment. Actually, STRS applies to community college professors so it could be different for her, but there’s probably something similar. When I was a grad student teaching assistant at UCLA I paid SS and got W2s. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/104 "2018-08-02T22:14:53Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The question I’d have is what sort of degree she got, and where. Assuming that she went back to get her Master’s degree, you’re looking at something like 30-35 credit hours, and maybe a thesis. $143,000 seems like maybe 2-3x what that should cost, assuming she went to a state school. A Master’s would be 60 credits. That debt for bachelor’s plus master’s works out to about $23,800 a year (assuming the loan covered tuition + room + board), not Econo State College but not Harvard either. My daughter just graduated from a state school and it averaged around $20K a year. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/105 "2018-08-02T22:25:27Z")
I know a guy working in Mountain View, CA making well over $200k who lives in a van. He’s not planning on working there forever. He already owns a house in another state. When he’s in CA, he’s at work pretty much all the time and would rather not commute. I’ve thought about living somewhere else, flying into DCA Monday mornings, and finding otherwise substandard (to me) living accommodations for three nights. Fly back Thursday night and work remotely Friday. It would have to be really cheap living elsewhere and here to make that work though. ---
**Author:** ![CelticKnot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celticknot/32/3392_2.png) [@CelticKnot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CelticKnot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/106 "2018-08-02T23:42:40Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > [HERE](https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/08/30/homeless-san-jose-state-professor-struggles-living-out-of-her-car/) is a story about an adjunct professor in San Jose California who cannot afford housing and is forced to live out of her car. The report talks about similar professionals and persons with jobs who live in high rent areas who have to live in campers or even their cars because of the high cost of housing. > > [HERE](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5212977/Californias-middle-class-homeless-living-parking-lots.html) is another article about working professionals (teachers, nurses, chefs) all over California doing the same. They say its the same in Seattle. > > I hate to sound rude but what I would like to know is why persons like this professor dont just up and move to a more affordable area? For example, my old college area of Lawrence Kansas (home to the University of Kansas) Kansas has an [average rent about $600](https://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-lawrence-ks-rent-trends/) of less than half of the $2,000 a month she mentions in San Jose. In [all of Kansas City (home to over 5 different colleges)](https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/mo/kansas-city/) even a 3 bedroom apartment goes for only about $1,200 a month. > > Now I understand it may be that she is tenured in California and that might be a factor. Maybe she just likes the atmosphere or the weather in San Jose but is it worth living in your car? > > Why do working professionals stay living in high rent areas when they have to live in their car? Have you been in this situation? Do you know what it’s like to be living on the edge or a car? You don’t have the savings you need to find a new place. If you want to buy a house, you need a down payment. If you want to rent, security deposit. If you are fortunate enough to not be in a car, you need to be able to move your stuff somehow, and that’s not going to be free, either. I haven’t found a great job market either. When I look for jobs in the areas I want to be, most jobs are impossible (I’m not remotely qualified, or I can’t get the CDL needed) or intolerable (kill floor in a pork processing plant). (BTW, that pork plant doesn’t call college graduates when they apply–there’s plenty of immigrant and refugees that don’t get paid as much). We don’t live in a car yet, but things aren’t looking good. If we leave here to be closer to family, we can’t live in my in-laws basement because FIL is a heavy smoker and I’m asthmatic. I can’t relate to the belief that changing locations or jobs is effortless. Or that flyover country is the redneck hell so many here believe it is. CA would be collectivist hell to me. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/107 "2018-08-03T01:46:17Z")
Funny, in a sad kind of way, the hate toward ‘red state flyover country’. Which is pretty irrelevant to the question anyway. There are plenty of hippy dippy less urban places where costs are low. My daughter lives in one in upstate NY. Definitely not Trump country right around there, though some other parts of USNY are (I still don’t get actually caring that much, but anyway let’s say you do demand your neighbors agree with your politics), nor expensive. It really isn’t one or the other. But when you get down to _one_ person doing something apparently odd, the reason is often: that they’re an odd person. In general people living out of cars are not employed or marginally employed and that can be a frustrating, or even tragic, box to get caught in, no doubt. But if she’s fairly close to fully employed, even at modest income, there’s your first month/last month/deposit and some weeks or months of living expenses to hunt for a job somewhere she can afford, saved up from not paying rent. Not that that makes it a breeze of a situation to get out of, but it’s silly IMO to say it’s impossible for a person with a reasonable job someplace that doesn’t pay enough to afford rent to get one someplace that does. And as for the ‘cultural amenities’ of someplace you can’t actually afford to live, with some exceptions of free cultural events or maybe a nicer public library than somewhere else, in general you’re probably not enjoying a cultural oasis that much if you’re living out of your car. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/108 "2018-08-03T03:29:15Z")
I wonder what our reactions to this story would be if the tables were reversed and the person in question was a man? Would a man get less sympathy? Would we be harder on a man for making a poor decision? ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/109 "2018-08-03T04:26:48Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I wonder what our reactions to this story would be if the tables were reversed and the person in question was a man? Would a man get less sympathy? Would we be harder on a man for making a poor decision? I’ve seen many stories about this on YouTube about men and women, and the discussion always goes about like this thread, regardless of gender. The bottom line is that a fully employed person living in their car long term comes down to that person being neurotic None of the logical, logistical “reasons” hold up over time, especially doing it as poorly as so many of the (typically intelligent) people featured are doing it. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/110 "2018-08-03T07:04:47Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > I’ve seen many stories about this on YouTube about men and women, and the discussion always goes about like this thread, regardless of gender. The bottom line is that a fully employed person living in their car long term comes down to that person being neurotic None of the logical, logistical “reasons” hold up over time, especially doing it as poorly as so many of the (typically intelligent) people featured are doing it. First of all, “neurotic” [doesn’t have a solid definition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurosis). I will assume you meant irrational. Second, assuming the person “living out of their car” has more than just a small car - they have some kind of interior space with at least a twin bed sized place to lie down and a decent mattress, and a source of power, and devices, and adequate storage, and a safe place to park - they have met all their basic needs. Everything else except a place to sleep can be found inexpensively in a place like San Jose California - or any other major city. You can find inexpensive food, and a big city will have far more options. You can exercise and shower at 24 hour fitness as long as you have a membership costing only ~$30/month, and many employers will have showers. You don’t have to have a living room, you can entertain yourself watching movies and TV on a tablet or go to a movie theatre. You can just drive your vehicle to a laundromat and do the laundry there. If you can meet your needs this way, and instead of spending $1600-$2500/month, you spend close to $0, then that money can go to things you value more. What’s wrong with that? I type this from the comfort of my apartment bedroom. I just rented a 2 bedroom apartment and found a decent roommate through Craigslist. The 1 bedroom apartments where I live are $1100 a month plus utilities, for a total of $1200, and I have managed to get the cost down to $700 a month with a roommate. But if I get a job in the Bay Area myself, living out of a van is an option I will seriously consider. With a 7 day a week job of the type I am thinking of (a machine learning developer at a startup or major firm), I would just need a place to sleep. The logical thing to do would be to purchase a used van and outfit it as a camper. Or just buy one from someone else who already did this in that area and sell it a few years later for only slightly less than I paid for it, if that. The actual economic reason this works is that every employer and business is required to have a huge amount of parking spaces. That space can’t be converted to high rise condos and apartments that are needed more because the local government is corrupt. So there is less housing than people who need to live there, combined with high ability to pay from other tech workers, so the rents rise to the stratosphere. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/111 "2018-08-03T09:25:12Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > Funny, in a sad kind of way, the hate toward ‘red state flyover country’. The red part actually has very little to do with it. One of the reasons I find projects as quickly as I do is that I’m willing to work “out in the boondocks”. Some of my latest “boondocks” include Lyon (France), Barcelona (Spain), Valladolid (Spain) and Liège (Belgium). For some people, Lyon or Barcelona are acceptable or even desirable; others consider that anything but The Capital must be a food and culture desert. And if the actual location happens to not even be the area’s biggest town but one of its neighbors (such as L’Hospitalet, Fira-Europa subway station, which was the actual address for the “Barcelona” job), you’d think you’re asking people to wear the modern version of a pith helmet. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/112 "2018-08-03T10:38:06Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > If you can meet your needs this way, and instead of spending $1600-$2500/month, you spend close to $0, then that money can go to things you value more. What’s wrong with that? The section of my post you quoted included the words “long term.” In the short term, what you propose is viable, even somewhat sensible, though that doesn’t seem to be the way most people are doing it (two dogs?). The rational use for the money not spent on housing would be saving it or investing it - the $1600-2500/mo not spent on housing would add up to almost $40-60 thousand dollars in two years, almost $60-90 thousand in three, not counting interest or capital gains. And sixty to ninety thousand dollars in the bank pretty much clears the board of the most-cited reasons for saying living on the street is a necessity, as almost all the people doing so claim. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/113 "2018-08-03T11:08:20Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I know a guy working in Mountain View, CA making well over $200k who lives in a van. He’s not planning on working there forever. He already owns a house in another state. When he’s in CA, he’s at work pretty much all the time and would rather not commute. oh that sounds _heavenly._ I don’t get people who clearly live to work. you’re still dead in the end, and all you did was spend all of your waking hours helping make someone else wealthy. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/114 "2018-08-03T11:32:14Z")
I had a good friend who was employed as a technical consultant with contracts of a few months to years length. Well-paying jobs, you bet. He lived out of his Toyota camper (less than a trailer), and typically would park in the company’s lot, with permission, run an electrical cord to the camper if possible, and live there for the duration of the job. He had everything he needed in the camper – a kitchen, a generator, bathroom, computer, bed. When he came to visit me once, I offered him my spare bedroom, but he declined. He didn’t mind eating my cooking, though. As a result, he saved enough to take a 6 month vacation between contracts, when he would unplug and drive away. He was happy living that way, but then he got married. I thought for sure he would settle down like ordinary people, _but his wife moved in the camper with him._ Go figure. One Fall, he rented a house for a change, just for a couple of weeks. That was the week when a vicious storm came through and we were without electricity for two days. No problem, he just moved back in the camper, and now he was the only one in the neighborhood with heat and light. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/115 "2018-08-03T12:12:53Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I don’t get people who clearly live to work. you’re still dead in the end, and all you did was spend all of your waking hours helping make someone else wealthy. If you spend your free time in learning and discovery and find someone willing to pay you to do the same, why not? We didn’t get PhDs to get rich. Or maybe he feels he’s making the world better for the next generation. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/116 "2018-08-03T14:22:59Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I had a good friend who was employed as a technical consultant with contracts of a few months to years length. Well-paying jobs, you bet. He lived out of his Toyota camper (less than a trailer), and typically would park in the company’s lot, with permission, run an electrical cord to the camper if possible, and live there for the duration of the job. > > He had everything he needed in the camper – a kitchen, a generator, bathroom, computer, bed. When he came to visit me once, I offered him my spare bedroom, but he declined. He didn’t mind eating my cooking, though. > > As a result, he saved enough to take a 6 month vacation between contracts, when he would unplug and drive away. He was happy living that way, but then he got married. I thought for sure he would settle down like ordinary people, _but his wife moved in the camper with him._ Go figure. > > One Fall, he rented a house for a change, just for a couple of weeks. That was the week when a vicious storm came through and we were without electricity for two days. No problem, he just moved back in the camper, and now he was the only one in the neighborhood with heat and light. To me that sounds like a really great way to live, not a lot of material possessions to worry about, easy to pack and leave, and freedom to wander. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/117 "2018-08-03T15:29:39Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > oh that sounds _heavenly._ > > I don’t get people who clearly live to work. you’re still dead in the end, and all you did was spend all of your waking hours helping make someone else wealthy. I’ve had some coworkers who had extremely-specialized roles; for a few days in a project they’d work furiously, then we would see hair nor hide of them for two months. Then they’d come back and work over a whole weekend, then if everything went well we’d see their name again on the “thank you all” final email. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/118 "2018-08-03T16:58:38Z")
This is a very interesting thread and I’ve enjoyed the different POVs. Maybe I’m being too simplistic in believing it’s simply a case where one can’t maximize all the variables at the same time. Want to do a specific type of work in specific conditions? You have to accept the pay and the location. Want to stay out of certain areas/locations? Same thing. Want to maximize your earnings? Accept the location/conditions, regardless of whether they appeal to you. I don’t think that anybody has tried to argue that there isn’t any other place this individual could go and get a job. It might not be the job this person wants or is trained to do, but that’s a personal decision for her to make. In this sense, her situation is entirely of her own making and she is absolutely free to explore alternatives. Finally, I’m not sure how moving someplace would cost at least $2000, especially if you’re already living in your car. Deposits on a place to live, along with deposits on utilities, might add up to $2000, but I can go out right now and find an apartment-sharing arrangement that wouldn’t cost me anywhere near $2000 to get into. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/119 "2018-08-03T17:30:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This story also mentions that the adjunct professor is supporting an unemployed husband and two dogs. Where are THEY living? Why isn’t the husband working? Why aren’t they getting rid of two dogs that they obviously cannot afford? Many people regard their pets as family members. To some people “getting rid of” a pet is like asking them to get rid of their children. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927/120 "2018-08-03T17:37:34Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Many people regard their pets as family members. To some people “getting rid of” a pet is like asking them to get rid of their children. People have given children away when they can’t afford them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-with-good-jobs-still-live-out-of-their-cars/818927.md?page=7)