Since this is about music, I’ll move this thread to Cafe Society.
i think that any big name act that lipsyncs in front of an audience of loyal fans should be dragged out into the street and shot.
Did they ever shoot Shania-- the way the camera angles were on some off the shots, you could just tell that the control room was caught off-guard as they scrambled in a never-ending battle to keep the camera lens at least an inch above her skirt hem, losing control at least twice. I’m sure the cherry-picker that they raised her up above the crowd on didn’t help matters. It was this unexpected turn of events that forced me to trust my friends observation that she was indeed lip sync’ing. Show, indeed! All the actors (I’d guess) in the mosh pit didn’t do much to convince me that she was rocking the house in any way with her vocal accomplishments.
I’m sure that’s true, but I saw No Doubt in November, and they were running and jumping all over the place and sounded great (ironically, I think Gwen was a little weak at Halftime).
As for lip-synching, why even bother? Most of the time it’s quite obvious, so why? Are they trying to sneak it by us? If we, as an audience, like the dancing so much, why not just dance? Quit pretending to sing.
Especially Shania Twain, I’ve seen her performance specials where she really sings, and, well, she can sing. Even N*Sync actually sang two years ago, while doing their dance routine (though admittedly, they sounded like crap).
Jon Bon Jovi has long had a well earnt reputation for having an impeccable “live” voice. His music isn’t exactly my cup of tea (just a dash too contrived for mine) but certainly he, and his band’s reputation for being able to cut it live is one which I respect immensely.
As for Sting? well, he’s the man, isn’t he? Two and a bit years ago I had the pleasure of seeing the guy on his then world tour when he came to Brisbane. Not one of his “Police” songs that he played that night were played like the originals, and yet, wow - it sounded like you were in a recording studio if you know what I mean. You see, it’s one thing to change your songs in a live setting - but it’s an altogether different thing to do so in a way which makes them still sound fantastic.
Sting, in a live concert setting, is one of the world’s great musos. His band has a reputation for attracting the best of the best, muso wise, and he takes incredible pride in being able to deliver live. As did U2 during the half time entertainment at last years Superbowl performance.
Amongst musos at least, lip syncing is a sure fire sign of lack of talent - 100% of the time. It’s the ultimate “rip off” - at a muso level at any rate.
fusoya and pkbites, I just wanted to point out that you seemed to be missing the point he was making. Yes, I agree most fans would be upset (or at least very disappointed) if their band was announcing that they were lip-syncing. However, Reality chuck is also right that alot of people don’t care, though not “most”. The real focus of his comment however is that the majority of people at shows do want the band to sound just like the CD version. While they’d like to hear the impromptu additions and playfulness with lyrics and crowd interaction, they want the “sound” of the music to be as close to what they like from the CD and video as possible. The vast minority of concert goers genuinely like the “raw” sound of a live band, and many of the ones that do like it more for the nostalgia of it than anything. Lip-syncing has its place. And I think the vast majority are willfully (and blissfully) ignorant if their favorite polished stage acts are lip-syncing or not.
About the OP specifically at the Super Bowl. I think a very important point to make is what the goal of the performance is. Yes, most concerts where you’re catering to people who are already your fans, are best served by singing live and are able to allow for the raw imperfectness of it. Good performers can minimalize the flaws inherent in it, and some can’t. I however don’t think that automatically makes them hacks. In the Super Bowl and other mass-TV audience acts the singer is very specifically trying to cater to the lowest common denominator. They aren’t playing for people who know and enjoy them already, they are catering to those who have never heard them before. They are trying to sell records and make new fans. I have no problem with this. The best way for Shania to draw new fans is to play a old, proven song and have it sound the very best it possibly can. Yeah, purists may scoff at obvious lip-syncing, but in the end the less discriminating viewer who kinds the clean hook catchy is too important to overlook.
In the end, Shania lip-synced and No Doubt didn’t. Neither was performing specifically for their fans, and in the end Shania is going to sell more records as a result because she sounded a 100 times better. When the singer is playing a show for ticket buying fans or their own, then they owe it to them to sing live most of the time, but when the show is for other purposes lip-syncing is acceptable.
Me too; please don’t think I was defending the idea, just stating my understanding of the reasoning that is ‘out there’.
One thing people may not realize is that when dealing with a stadium, such as for the Superbowl, the prefered music interludes are synched. A lot of it for technical reasons (maybe some speakers not picking up the mike properly) or just because an open air stadium works better with using a tape. So people can actually hear the music and not just the voice and what music can be picked up etc.
When we did the opening for the World’s Athletics Championships in 2001, we did have the singers there, but we had the tape running. Because the music itself was harder to get to reach everyone. Something with acoustics and stuff.
Yes, I realize many bands do open air concerts just fine without tapes, but that’s part of the reason they do that. And plus it’s the Superbowl. They want it to be as perfect as possible. Lip-synching is just a way of making sure that the voice/music doesn’t go wrong and make a muck of things.
“Obsidian”? Please tell us more about your role at the World Athletics Championships. I own a fairly cool recording studio setup - I’m really interested in the logistics of what you had to go through please.
Have you ever actually seen them live? I’m a fan, but I’ll admit that their live recordings sound pretty rough (In fact, the live album they released a couple of years ago sounds a little too good as compared to their other live material, leading me to suspect it got some studio overdubs). But when I saw them live in 2000, they were still fairly sloppy, but due to the volume and atmosphere, the show was energetic and fun enough to overcome the less than perfect recreation of the songs.
And I guess Shania lip-synched because she is more about spectacle than music. The point was that she was there on TV doing stuff rather than playing anything. Vision was important here rather than sound.
I’ve seen three live bands that absolutely rocked, and sounded better than CD in concert… Stabbing Westward, Depeche Mode, and the Cure. I am positive that none of them were lip synching, since the music was quite a bit changed from the CD releases, but it still sounded crystal clear and awesome!
For the record, David Gahan of DM was the best vocalist. Tons of energy, and able to maintain his voice at a constant, smooth tone.
Its even funnier when they lip sync to tracks they didn’t even sing on to begin with, ala Ashanti’s “guide vocals” ending up on the final mix of J-Lo’s album.
A totally unrelated anecdote: Folks, I’m 4, ancient enough to remember seeing Super Bowl V, between the Colts and Cowboys, at the Orange Bowl. Wanna know what the ENTIRE halftime show was, back then?
Anita Bryant singing “The Battle Hymn of the Republic.”
And, in case you didn’t know it (I didn’t, at the time), there’s more to that song than “Mine eyes have seen the glory” and “glorry, glory, halleljuah.” That song has about 20 verses. And she sang them all!
So, considering the alternative… I can live with Shania Twain lip-synching.
Make that 41… sorry!
Ha, I knew it! I can’t stand it when people lip-synch and don’t bother to inform anyone beforehand. It would be one thing if the announcer said something like: “And here’s Shina Twain lip-synching her 1999 hit…” but they try to pass it off as the real deal, sickening.
My experience occurred 20 years ago, but I’ll relate it for what it’s worth. I was in a group of about 30 people who sang the national anthem at a professional baseball game. The song was taped, and although we really sang along with the tape, no one could hear us live. We used a tape because, I was told, it is incredibly difficult to sing live in a stadium because of the time delay between sound coming out of the mouth and coming out of the stadium speakers (I believe it can be several seconds).
To sing live with your delayed voice coming out of the speakers requires tremendous concentration (or probably in the case of big name bands, technology to bypass the problem).
Someone who sang the anthem live in a stadium told me that he focussed solely on his singing, shutting out the sound of the speakers. When he finished the anthem, he started taking bows; as he was bowing, he heard his voice from the speakers: “AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE”.
P.S. If you are hearing sound from the stadium speakers, it will not match the singer’s mouth if they are singing live. I don’t know if the sound & visual match up on TV.
Shania obviously lip-synched, as evidenced by when she shook the audiences’ hands and stopped moving her lips, but the sound of her voice went on.
Sting and Gwen obviously sang live.
But I couldn’t tell about Michelle Branch–I wasn’t watching that much, but the sound was ‘too-perfect’. I think she synched too.
My girlfriend, a big Shania fan, wouldn’t believe me when I said that Ms Twain was singing to a tape. When Sting came on, I pointed out that his performance was obviously live. She couldn’t tell the difference.
Add Aerosmith to that- you haven’t heard Dream On unless you’ve heard it live. Their live performances wipe the floor with the studio cuts.
I think that lip-syncing is just something we’re going to have to deal with as long as football fans remain passionate about their divas.