# Why do pilots say "niner"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 11, 2005, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551 "2005-11-11T07:49:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/1 "2005-11-11T07:49:58Z")
…Instead of “nine”? Where’d it come from? Adam ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/2 "2005-11-11T08:00:34Z")
Because “nine” and “five” sound too much alike, especially on a noisy or low fidelity transmission. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/3 "2005-11-11T08:03:32Z")
I think it’s to reduce the chance of confusion between ‘five’ and ‘nine’ which may sound similar under certain conditions. ---
**Author:** ![seosamh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@seosamh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seosamh)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/4 "2005-11-11T10:11:20Z")
This is at a bit of a tangent, but if British Army gunners are doing a countdown before making something go bang, they actually leave out Five in case anyone mishears it as “Fire”. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/5 "2005-11-11T12:00:18Z")
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO\_phonetic\_alphabet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:FAA\_Phonetic\_and\_Morse\_Chart.gif](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:FAA_Phonetic_and_Morse_Chart.gif) One = “Wun” Two = “Too” Three = “Tree” Four = “Fow-er” Five = “Fife” Six = “Six” Seven = “Sev-en” Eight = “Ait” Nine = “Nin-er” Zero = “Zee-ro” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/6 "2005-11-11T12:26:34Z")
Professional pilot type here … That’s all correct, but with modern radios the “official” pronunciations are pretty much obsolete. Many controllers & pilots still use niner much of the time, but the other exaggerated pronunciations are rarely heard. I recall one controller at, I think, Detroit, who liked to use the perfect letter-of-the-law pronunciations. He was very hard to understand because of it. I suspect he was in a bit of a tug-of-war with his supervisor over something and was being super-perfect by-the-book to prove something to somebody. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/7 "2005-11-11T12:52:52Z")
I learned that three and five were pronounced w/ two sylables “tha-ree” and fi-yuv". The word “repeat” was not used in normal transmission as it once meant “fire again” when transmitted from a spotter to an artillery or mortar crew. If you wanted someone to repeat a transmission you said “say again your last”. As LSLGuy points out, these are rarely used anymore w/ the possible exception of “niner”. Actually niner was in place of nine to avoid confusing it with one, as I learned it. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/8 "2005-11-11T12:58:24Z")
I thought it was used to disguish 9 from the nien(sp/) - the German word for no. Brian ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/9 "2005-11-11T14:02:01Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > I thought it was used to disguish 9 from the nien(sp/) - the German word for no. > > Brian Yeah, I always thought the source of confusion was ‘none’, which might be another term for zero. Certainly wouldn’t a thought of ‘five’ Always learning something new here at the dope!! ---
**Author:** ![Blobbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Blobbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blobbo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/10 "2005-11-11T14:09:05Z")
Mildly off topic, but: During a test of New Orleans’ emergency systems before Katrina hit, a hospital was told to prepare forty-nine serious injury beds for the people who would pretend being wounded (the situation was a bomb exploding during a sports game). Unfortunantly, the nurse confused ‘prepare for forty-nine serious injuries’ with ‘prepare for forty non-serious injuries’. Good thing it wasn’t a real bomb. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/11 "2005-11-11T16:41:54Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Professional pilot type here … > > That’s all correct, but with modern radios the “official” pronunciations are pretty much obsolete. Many controllers & pilots still use niner much of the time, but the other exaggerated pronunciations are rarely heard. Seems to me (and I could be wrong) that niner is more likely to be used if it’s the final number in the sequence. Any truth to that? ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/12 "2005-11-11T17:04:35Z")
Why\*\* still \*\* used? Simple explanation: It’s friggin’ cool. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![ProTem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/51bf81/32.png) [@ProTem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProTem)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/13 "2005-11-11T18:05:53Z")
It’s as cool as “10-4, Good Buddy”. And the double knits that went with that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/14 "2005-11-11T18:18:45Z")
Early phone operators had a similar pronunciation scheme, except they said “ni-yun”: “wun”, “two”, “thuh-ree”, “fow-er”, “fiyiv”, “six”,“sev-un”, “ait”, “ni-yun”. Sad to say, given the maddening ineffectiveness of voice activated response systems, it seems these pronunciations are still needed sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/15 "2005-11-11T18:46:44Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO\_phonetic\_alphabet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet) > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:FAA\_Phonetic\_and\_Morse\_Chart.gif](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:FAA_Phonetic_and_Morse_Chart.gif) > > One = “Wun” > Two = “Too” > Three = “Tree” > Four = “Fow-er” > Five = “Fife” > Six = “Six” > Seven = “Sev-en” > Eight = “Ait” > Nine = “Nin-er” > Zero = “Zee-ro” Note “Québec” is definitely NOT how it would be said in French. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/16 "2005-11-11T22:58:12Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > Note “Québec” is definitely NOT how it would be said in French. True. But as long as the point is to convey a “Q-word”, it matters not. ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/17 "2005-11-12T01:53:24Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > Note “Québec” is definitely NOT how it would be said in French. It’s not that far off. In formal speech, in Canadian french, you’d say “Kay-beck”: Long-a sound for the “é”, stress on the second syllable. But informally, that sharp “é” is often softened, as the “ing” in “walking” is in english (to “walkin” or even “wokkin”). It sounds a lot like “Kebbeck” when that happens. When I “Quebec” in radiotelephony, I use the anglo pronunciation, of “Kebeck”. It’s rare to hear “Kwuh-beck”, or any variant on the “Kw” sound. At least in the air-band contexts I’m used to. (Civilian and military air-to-air and air-to-ground in central Canada in the English language.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/18 "2005-11-12T01:59:06Z")
Because it lets people know we’re pilots. 😛 [size=1]How do you know there’s a pilot at your party? He’ll _tell_ you! [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/19 "2005-11-12T03:36:13Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Seems to me (and I could be wrong) that niner is more likely to be used if it’s the final number in the sequence. Any truth to that? Not in my experience. In Australia we have large areas of the country where the only low-level radio service is by HF radio which has notoriously bad readability at times. It is really very important to use the correct pronunciation on HF, not so important on VHF, but it can still be the difference between crashing and not. Example: ATC: “QANTAS ten seventy-four descend to **nine** thousand” QF1074: “Descend to **five** thousand, QANTAS ten seventy-four” QANTAS 1074 then proceeds to bust their cleared level and collides with another aircraft. If ATC had said “nin **er** thousand”, QF1074 wouldn’t have misheard the clearance, and if QF1074 had read back “fi **f** e thousand”, ATC would have picked up the mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551/20 "2005-11-12T03:38:53Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Because it lets people know we’re pilots. 😛 > > How do you know there’s a pilot at your party? He’ll _tell_ you! What’s the difference between a pilot and God? God doesn’t think he’s a pilot! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pilots-say-niner/330551.md?page=2)