# Why do Pirates bite coins they are given? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 26, 2002, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108 "2002-06-26T21:32:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/23 "2017-04-21T16:30:09Z")
I have since been told that biting the coin was to see if it did NOT leave a dent, A fake lead coin covered in gold leaf will dent, a gold coin will not. If your tooth left a mark, it was fake. Most gold coins in circulation have been alloyed to be harder Gold is harder than lead,[The Mohs Scale of Hardness for Metals: Why It Is Important](http://www.jewelrynotes.com/the-mohs-scale-of-hardness-for-metals-why-it-is-important/) so it would make more sense that if it was dented, your coin is more likely lead. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/24 "2017-04-21T16:45:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Channing Idaho Banks** : > > biting lead coins. What could go wrong? You might chip a tooth if you already had a cavity, or you might accidentally drop it on your toe. What wouldn’t go wrong is lead poisoning: Lead in its elemental form isn’t actually all that toxic, and it’s not water-soluble either. The real risk comes from lead compounds, like the lead acetate that the ancient Romans used to sweeten their wine, or the tetraethyl lead used as a gasoline additive for many years. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/25 "2017-04-21T18:03:05Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > That made me wonder how much gold leaf weighed. [This site](http://www.gildedplanet.com/gildingbasics.html) says around 18 to 23 grams per 1,000 leaves, with each leaf being 3.375 inches square. So one troy ounce (31.1035 grams per) of gold would make in the range of 1,500 sheets, or around 120 square feet. At today’s gold prices, that would be less than 4 square feet. So back then (1980’s, I think) gold would be around $400 to $800 an ounce. He had a substantial pile of those 3.375inch square sheets (Separated by glassine paper), which he said cost $40. So, about 75 to 150 of them, 6 to 12 square feet? You can coat a lot of lead Pieces of Eight using 12 square feet of gold leaf if you think it will fool some country bumpkins or sailors. Arrrr… ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/26 "2017-04-21T18:10:17Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I have since been told that biting the coin was to see if it did NOT leave a dent, A fake lead coin covered in gold leaf will dent, a gold coin will not. > If your tooth left a mark, it was fake. Most gold coins in circulation have been alloyed to be harder > Gold is harder than lead,[The Mohs Scale of Hardness for Metals: Why It Is Important](http://www.jewelrynotes.com/the-mohs-scale-of-hardness-for-metals-why-it-is-important/) > > so it would make more sense that if it was dented, your coin is more likely lead. [That’s what Steven Fry says.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj76xSFNK6c) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/27 "2017-04-21T18:16:39Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > You can coat a lot of lead Pieces of Eight using 12 square feet of gold leaf if you think it will fool some country bumpkins or sailors. Arrrr… And the time has come for the picking of nits–“[piece of eight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar)” coins were silver. The proper pie-ratty-sounding gold coin is the [doubloon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubloon). ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/28 "2017-04-21T18:19:45Z")
Plus, another trick was to try to bend the coin while biting it. If it’s lead, you could probably do this. Even gold, however, would be a bit more difficult to bend. Lead was a favourite because gold is notoriously heavy, and only lead was a common enough cheap metal whose weight might fool the unwary in the Good Old Days. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/29 "2017-04-21T18:20:46Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > And the time has come for the picking of nits–“[piece of eight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar)” coins were silver. The proper pie-ratty-sounding gold coin is the [doubloon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubloon). Arrr… Shiver me timbers… It did seem mighty hard to bite into eight pieces… ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/30 "2017-04-21T19:31:55Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [That’s what Steven Fry says.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj76xSFNK6c) Thanks that was my source,…I forgot where I heard it, and I was disappointed I couldn’t easily come up with a source on my own. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/31 "2017-04-21T21:06:17Z")
Doesn’t anyone remember that Underdog (as the humble bootblack) always bit the coins he was given? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/32 "2017-04-22T02:18:05Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > And the time has come for the picking of nits–“[piece of eight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar)” coins were silver. The proper pie-ratty-sounding gold coin is the [doubloon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubloon). … and each of eight pieces was called… a BIT! Remember “two bits four bits six bits a dollar!”? So, the original bit coin was only worth 12 1/2 cents. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2017, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/33 "2017-04-22T02:29:19Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Doesn’t anyone remember that Underdog (as the humble bootblack) always bit the coins he was given? Well, yeah, but he was a dog. They do that with almost anything you give them. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/34 "2017-04-23T21:28:55Z")
> [@TV\_time](#): > > It was not uncommon in those days for unscrupulous counterfeiters (is there any other kind?) to cast a lead coin and coat it with a thin layer gold thus taking in unsuspecting individuals. If one bit into the coin and it gave the coin was “as good as gold”. > > It was a quite common practice at the time to bite coins and not only pirates but merchants, members of the church and government officials did likewise. Those with scales would weigh the coins and those with solid flooring would drop the coins and listen to the ring as opposed to the thud of the lead coin but biting was a very common method. So this is how bitcoin was invented? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/35 "2017-04-23T22:40:52Z")
Of course, for anyone who’s actually familiar with gold, lead would never fool them, since, dense though lead is, gold is nearly twice as dense. Now, tungsten, that’ll work. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/36 "2017-04-24T13:46:30Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > … and each of eight pieces was called… a BIT! > > Remember “two bits four bits six bits a dollar!”? > > So, the original bit coin was only worth 12 1/2 cents. Only if you bit hard enough…? As I understood it, the “pieces” of the eight referred to cutting the coin into 8 pie shapes to make change, in the days when (a) coins were valued for the metal they contained and (b) change was hard to come by. It was a common practice to cut coins to get a smaller amount of value; the design of the “pieces of eight” was that it lent itself to easily ensuring the pieces were equally fairly cut. I think… ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/37 "2017-04-24T14:06:44Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Only if you bit hard enough…? > > As I understood it, the “pieces” of the eight referred to cutting the coin into 8 pie shapes to make change, in the days when (a) coins were valued for the metal they contained and (b) change was hard to come by. It was a common practice to cut coins to get a smaller amount of value; the design of the “pieces of eight” was that it lent itself to easily ensuring the pieces were equally fairly cut. > > I think… That’s the story I have heard, but I have my doubts about the accurate cutting. There’ be a good business in cutting a coin to get eight piece and still have a little gold left over. The ridges on quarters and other coins were used to stop the practice of shaving where a little bit of metal was scraped from the circumference of the coin. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/38 "2017-04-24T14:18:28Z")
[Pieces of Eight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar)were so called because they were worth 8 reales. There were no score marks for easy cutting, nor lines to indicate where to cut. They were no easier to divide fairly than any other coin. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/39 "2017-04-24T14:38:57Z")
I don’t believe biting a coin would have been much of a diagnostic. Shopkeepers had special scales designed for the purpose to detect counterfeits, because a coin of the proper size, and weight, couldn’t (practically) be anything but gold. Modern counterfeiting revolves around faking rare or valuable collector coins. They are made of gold in the proper alloy, because their value is in the collector realm where the price is far in excess of their bullion content. The scales won’t help here. A modern counterfeit detector for gold and silver bullion coins is called the Fisch, though I’ve never seen a coin dealer use one. They must see a lot of coins, and never look twice at a government issued bullion coin. But it’s probably worth being aware of, there are fakes out there. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/40 "2017-04-25T12:42:06Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Only if you bit hard enough…? > > As I understood it, the “pieces” of the eight referred to cutting the coin into 8 pie shapes to make change, in the days when (a) coins were valued for the metal they contained and (b) change was hard to come by. It was a common practice to cut coins to get a smaller amount of value; the design of the “pieces of eight” was that it lent itself to easily ensuring the pieces were equally fairly cut. > > I think… In the U.S. they never cut silver 8 real pieces into smaller pieces for small change. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/41 "2017-04-25T14:14:55Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > In the U.S. they never cut silver 8 real pieces into smaller pieces for small change. That’s surprising, as I recall reading that in the 19th century the US had a severe shortage of small coinage at times, and small coinage had a lot more purchasing power. Postage stamps were used at one time, things like that. Sam one thing I wondered about, whenever gold doubloons or silver pieces of eight are portrayed in movies or radio, they always make a plastic clack or metal slug sound as they are dropped on a table. As anyone who has handled old coins know, silver dollars and gold alloy coins make a beautiful ringing noise, that is very distinctive. Do Spanish doubloons ring when dropped on a hard surface? I suspect that it’s the alloy that does this, but I’m not sure. For example, Canada makes a very pure 99.999% gold bullion coin, I imagine it makes a very unsatisfying clunk. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108/42 "2017-04-25T18:52:22Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > That’s surprising, as I recall reading that in the 19th century the US had a severe shortage of small coinage at times, and small coinage had a lot more purchasing power. Postage stamps were used at one time, things like that. > > Sam one thing I wondered about, whenever gold doubloons or silver pieces of eight are portrayed in movies or radio, they always make a plastic clack or metal slug sound as they are dropped on a table. As anyone who has handled old coins know, silver dollars and gold alloy coins make a beautiful ringing noise, that is very distinctive. Do Spanish doubloons ring when dropped on a hard surface? I suspect that it’s the alloy that does this, but I’m not sure. For example, Canada makes a very pure 99.999% gold bullion coin, I imagine it makes a very unsatisfying clunk. Depends on the period of time the coin was made. Prior to 1732, most 8 real silver and 8 escudo gold coins were rather crudely shaped(called cobs). The blanks were cut from cast bars before striking and were rather irregularly thick and thin. They clunked. After 1732 the blanks were more round. They still didn’t ring quite as nicely as early 19th century coins. Your speculation about the alloy is probably true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pirates-bite-coins-they-are-given/116108.md?page=1)