# Why do pitchers hate it when batters crowd the plate? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 25, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928 "2011-01-25T16:09:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/1 "2011-01-25T16:09:44Z")
My non-baseball mind thinks: If they crowd the plate, its going to be tougher to get their bat’s sweetspot onto the pitch, because you’d have to pull in your swing tigher (which gives it less power), and can really only hit towards 3rd base due to the angle. Pitchers should love that. What’s wrong with that analysis? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/2 "2011-01-25T16:13:46Z")
When the batter crowds the plate, it becomes harder for the pitcher to throw inside because he is more likely to hit the batter and put him on base. It might also make it tougher for the pitcher to get a strike called on the inside corner. Crowding also makes pitches on the outside corner or off the corner less effective because they are easier for the batter to reach. The batter can move, but the strike zone doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/3 "2011-01-25T16:16:00Z")
It has nothing to do with the ability of the hitter to get the bat on the ball, and everything to do with hitting the batter with a pitch. The closer the batter stands to the plate, the higher the probability he’s going to be hit by a pitch off the inside corner (or, rarely, even a pitch that’s over the plate). So the pitcher is left with a choice between throwing on the inside corner and risking a HBP, or letting the ball leak out over the plate a bit and risk a free souvenir for the fans in the left field stands. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/4 "2011-01-25T16:16:11Z")
Guys like Bob Gibson and Dizzy Dean had ways of dealing with batters standing too close to the plate. It’s getting to be a lost art, though. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/5 "2011-01-25T16:50:49Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Guys like Bob Gibson and Dizzy Dean had ways of dealing with batters standing too close to the plate. It’s getting to be a lost art, though. This touches on a serious issue, which is that to get a guy off the plate you throw a little sweet chin music. However, now a days that kind of thing is frowned upon and likely to earn a pitcher a warning and eventually an ejection. ---
**Author:** ![ReticulatingSplines](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@ReticulatingSplines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReticulatingSplines)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/6 "2011-01-25T17:11:57Z")
I don’t think it’s even so much merely a matter of pitchers disliking batters trying to get themselves plunked; it’s that batters do it the cheap way, by cladding themselves in rollerblading pads and THEN leaning over the plate. _cough_craigbiggio ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/7 "2011-01-25T17:13:32Z")
Yeah - Biggio and Bonds were the worst at it. It’s one thing to keep your catcher gear on at bat, it’s another to be a big lug like Don Baylor leaning in and getting nailed. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/8 "2011-01-25T18:21:41Z")
So, pitchers don’t like it when batters crowd the plate because it makes it too easy to hit the batter… so they respond by hitting the batter? Weird. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/9 "2011-01-25T18:52:32Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > So, pitchers don’t like it when batters crowd the plate because it makes it too easy to hit the batter… so they respond by hitting the batter? Weird. Not all hit by pitches are equal. If you’re just hanging over the plate and get hit by accident, you might get a curveball in the thigh. If the pitcher wants to hit you, you might get a fastball to your upper back. And an intentional HBP sends a message to the batter and the rest of the team for future at-bats, although you don’t have to hit him to do that. You can do the same kind of thing by throwing inside and making him move. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/10 "2011-01-25T18:54:06Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > So, pitchers don’t like it when batters crowd the plate because it makes it too easy to hit the batter… so they respond by hitting the batter? Weird. Not really. When one guy goes up and crowds the plate, it does a few things. 1. It takes away the inside of the strike zone. This is bad for the pitcher because not only is the inside hard for the batter to hit, but it makes setting up an outside pitch that much harder. 2. It incrementally shrinks the strike zone. This is because umps are terrible, and will judge some pitches by how close it is to the batter, rather than on the actual strike zone (determined by the width of home plate). 3. It screws with the pitcher. Pitchers \*should \*aim their pitches based on the position of the plate, but like the umps, the relative position of the batter does have an effect on where to throw/aim (or for an ump, call a strike). A crowded plate will make a pitcher a bit more uncomfortable throwing inside. 4. It increases the likelihood of hitting the batter. 5. It does all of the above for the rest of your lineup as well - so one player crowding the plate will have an effect down the line, albeit decreasingly so. So to prevent that from happening, pitchers will throw at (and by “at” I mean “very close to” - repeated transgressors will get beaned) the first batter that crowds the plate, to brush him off the inside. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/11 "2011-01-25T19:17:49Z")
I think it might have been Bob Gibson who used to say, “The outside half of the plate is mine.” Basically, pitchers want to be able to hit the outside corners of the strike zone, while a healthy fear of a 90-mile-an-hour fastball on the part of the batter keeps him far enough off the plate that it’s hard to get the bat on the ball out there. When a batter crowds the plate, he’s trying to take that “outside half of the plate” for himself, in order to be able to get around on those outside pitches the pitcher was counting on for strikes. That’s why pitchers hate it when batters crowd the plate … not so much that they’re afraid they’ll get a hit-by-pitch, but that the batters are upsetting the balance of power between the two. Back in the day, as mentioned above, pitchers like Gibson and Drysdale and heck, just about everybody, had a response for that. Throwing a pitch inside, to make that batter think again about how much a fastball in the ribs would hurt (usually while he was sitting in the dirt after bailing out away from the pitch), so they’d back off the plate a little. Thereby … the pitcher regains the advantage of putting pitches on the outside corners. Nowadays, pitching inside gets you warnings and ejections. Not to mention hitters like Bonds and Biggio, who wear freakin’ Kevlar body armor when they step in the box. They can practically stand on top of the plate and drive outside pitches to far corners of the universe, with very little fear of the inside pitch. So that’s why pitchers hate when batters crowd the plate. Yes, it’s harder for the batter to get around on an inside pitch … but it’s also harder for the pitcher to get the inside pitch across without plunking the guy. So the batter gets a big advantage … ability to hit the outside pitch, while the inside pitch might get you on base, too. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/12 "2011-01-25T19:19:28Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > Nowadays, pitching inside gets you warnings and ejections. Not to mention hitters like Bonds and Biggio, who wear freakin’ Kevlar body armor when they step in the box. They can practically stand on top of the plate and drive outside pitches to far corners of the universe, with very little fear of the inside pitch. I think there are restrictions on those wrist guards now, and you don’t get ejected for throwing one pitch inside. It’s true the umps are inconsistent and often stupid with the warnings, though. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/13 "2011-01-25T19:26:10Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > So, pitchers don’t like it when batters crowd the plate because it makes it too easy to hit the batter… so they respond by hitting the batter? Weird. Not really weird for the reasons pointed out. The pitcher really needs that outside part of the plate and should have the right to knock you on your ass to keep it. As long as you’re not headhunting, I think pitchers should be allowed to brush people back if: 1. they crowd the plate 2. they dig in too much (One time Dizzy Dean hollered at a batter “Dig yourself a deep one, sonny boy, ol’ Diz’ is gonna bury you right there”) 3. they peek at the catcher’s signs 4. they come up at bat right after a home run ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/14 "2011-01-25T19:34:04Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think there are restrictions on those wrist guards now, and you don’t get ejected for throwing one pitch inside. It’s true the umps are inconsistent and often stupid with the warnings, though. They did, some time in the early '00s, I think, mainly in response to Biggio & Bonds and others wearing those guards. You can still wear one if you’ve got a doctor’s note that you need it to protect against re-injury or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/15 "2011-01-25T19:35:56Z")
I’m not sure I really buy that kids these days are all soft and don’t throw beanballs, either. Pedro was a ridiculous headhunter. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/16 "2011-01-25T19:38:08Z")
The last few years I’ve heard complaints that there are too many beanballs these days, and that you see pitchers “retaliating” for HBPs that were clearly not intentional. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/17 "2011-01-25T19:39:32Z")
Also, I think Dizzy Dean never spoke, he only hollered. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/18 "2011-01-25T19:51:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > 1. they come up at bat right after a home run It isn’t a contact sport. I see no reason why a pitcher should throw at a batter after he gives up a home run. That’s just being a shithead. If he doesn’t like giving up home runs, maybe Mr. Pitcher should throw better pitches. I’ll tell you what, though; you throw at my batter for such a stupid reason, and I’ll wait for your best hitter to come up and order my pitcher to throw at his head. Bad sportsmanship IS a good reason to throw at a batter. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/19 "2011-01-25T19:55:45Z")
Baseball bugs me because it has so much unwritten rules I’m assuming that the batter’s box is where the batter has to stay, and that if he violates it, the umpire can tell a batter to move back, or adjust his position. Why shouldn’t a batter crowd the plate if he can get a better advantage and it’s not forbidden? And why should a pitcher not be reprimanded for trying to throw off the batter with an inside pitch? He wants the advantage for himself, so does the batter. It just so happens only one of them has the ability to throw a 90mph ball at the other’s head To me, as a non-baseball guy and certainly not a traditionalist, pitchers should just pitch without the advantage of having the batter farther from the plate. If it’s legal for the batter to do it, they should crowd the plate, and pitchers just have to adjust their pitches. God forbid we actually have more scoring in baseball ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928/20 "2011-01-25T20:07:27Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > And why should a pitcher not be reprimanded for trying to throw off the batter with an inside pitch? Why are you trying to replace one “unwritten rule” with another? Neither crowding the plate nor brushing a hitter back are against the rules. Let them work it out on their own. Yeah, the pitcher can throw 90 mph. But a line drive goes considerably faster than that, and a HR is considerably more detrimental to the pitcher than a HBP. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pitchers-hate-it-when-batters-crowd-the-plate/568928.md?page=2)