# Why do planes have windows? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 15, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203 "2009-04-15T18:35:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/81 "2009-04-17T06:15:38Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I don’t recall seeing any stars, at all, during the 3 or 4 times I made the journey. I recall blackness only. Alright, **Leaffan** , in spite of your obvious opinion in this thread about the necessity of windows on airliners, we concede, clearly there were no stars out on the night of your flight from Vancouver to Hong Kong because you didn’t notice them. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/82 "2009-04-17T06:50:55Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > [O RLY?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet) I don’t think I’ve ever seen a square or rectangular window on a plane (or a boat!). > [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Just make the whole plane [transparent](http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/13/movie-gadget-friday-the-invisible-jet-from-wonder-woman/). Amazon Airlines? > [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > But you’d cut down on the number of people who freak out and realize they have a fear of heights. 😛 That’s why there’s shades 🙂 I guess if you are claustrophobic and have a fear of heights you can put the shade half way down 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Omgalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/41988e/32.png) [@Omgalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omgalion)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/83 "2009-04-17T07:35:32Z")
Just the thought of sitting on a turbulent plane without windows makes me feel motion sick. Anyway, I love the window seat. Even after dozens of flights around Australia and elsewhere, I still spend the flight gazing out the window on the world below. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/84 "2009-04-17T07:46:03Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Hate to break it to you, but you’re pretty much screwed if your plane loses electrical power no matter how many windows the pilots have. If you lose power when you’re lined up, runway in sight, and have clearance, I understand that’s still _bad_. If you lose power when you’re not in that situation, it’s _really_ bad, because you can’t see how fast you’re going, or where you are, or how high you are, and most importantly, you can’t talk to ATC or a nearby airport to tell them you’re screwed. Yes a complete loss of electrics wouldn’t be great in some commercial aircraft, however it’s near impossible to have a complete loss of electrics. Even our lowly Dash 8 has four electrical sources plus the batteries, we can lose any one of the generators with no loss of services, we can lose most combinations of two and still have all services. Even if we lose all four sources we still have two batteries which will provide essential services for at least 30 minutes. Once the batteries have gone, the airspeed indicators are pressure instruments that don’t require electrics and the standby altimeter is a pressure instrument as well. Unfortunately the attitude instruments are all electric and so if we were in cloud we’d be in trouble. Larger jet airliners are often equipped with a RAT (ram air turbine) which can be deployed into the airflow and act as a wind generator supplying electrical power. Having said all that, you don’t need a complete loss of electrics to lose the hypothetical video screens for the pilots. Just a failure of the components themselves would be enough to cause serious problems. Of course there’d be more than one, but something like a lightning strike might fry both screens. I think ultimately you wouldn’t see pilots using video screens because they wouldn’t accept it. It would also be useless as a “see and avoid” traffic avoidance tool. And would provide no depth perception for landing and manoeuvering on the ground. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I thought the pressure difference was less than that, and Wikipedia gives a value of 7.5-8 psi. Sure, that sounds like even less, but still worth getting right (and I’d like a little safety margin, too). Yes that’s closer to the mark. Pressure at 36000 feet is about 224 hPa and pressure at the typical cabin altitude of 8000 feet is about 743 hPa [sup][cite](http://www.aeromech.usyd.edu.au/aero/atmosphere/atmtab.txt)[/sup]. This gives a differential of 519 hPa (7.5 PSI). > [@Leaffan](#): > > I don’t recall seeing any stars, at all, during the 3 or 4 times I made the journey. I recall blackness only. You were probably just unlucky. There’re lots of stars out there, in fact, it’s all stars! > [@jackdavinci](#): > > I don’t think I’ve ever seen a square or rectangular window on a plane (or a boat!). Well no, because the Comet demonstrated that they are unsafe on a pressurised aircraft. They do come in shapes that are almost rectangular though and the challenge for the engineers would be just how square can they make the corners while maintaining the structural integrity. [This aircraft](http://www.airliners.net/photo/Surveillance-Australia/De-Havilland-Canada/1467196/M/) has rectangular windows with enough curve at the corners to keep them strong. Note in particular the large observer window which is very rectangular. ---
**Author:** ![Solfy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Solfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Solfy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/85 "2009-04-17T16:59:47Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Much of how an airplane looks, and what features it has, is the result of airline competitive demand. An airline that can offer attractive windows on their fleet will be more appealing to customers and travelers than one without. > > One of the marketing appeals of the new 787 is the new larger windows (than any previous Boeing or Airbus models). The carbon composite fuselage has improved stress limits that make larger windows practical. Bingo. I spent yesterday morning playing with one of the model Dreamliner windows. They have electrochromic window shades. Tell me that doesn’t add to the cost of the plane - but it’s a selling point. From a news release regarding the windows of the 787: “The 787 is a family of super-efficient airplanes by Boeing that will provide passengers with a better flying experience. As the world’s first mostly composite commercial airplane, it will use 20 percent less fuel per passenger than similarly sized airplanes, produce fewer carbon emissions, and have quieter takeoffs and landings. The airplanes will feature significant improvements in passenger amenities including cleaner air, **larger windows** , a lower cabin altitude and higher humidity. The first 787 is scheduled to enter passenger service in May 2008.” (they sure did miss the boat on the estimated date of service) ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/86 "2009-04-17T17:19:57Z")
I’ve travelled in the back of a van with no windows and felt distinctly nauseous from the lack of visual reference points. Planes would be worse, since they’re moving in three dimensions (it’s bad enough at night if you can’t see the lights on the ground). If I was offered a cheap flight with no windows, I wouldn’t buy it - and cheap seems to be the only argument for it. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/87 "2009-04-17T17:26:10Z")
> [@ellere](#): > > Just the thought of sitting on a turbulent plane without windows makes me feel motion sick. Yep. Windows have a real purpose for people prone to motion sickness (like me). And an LCD monitor wouldn’t help - the slight ‘offness’ of the experience with the visual information might make it worse. I feel crappy on virtual reality rides. Planes have windows partly to keep that acrid vomit smell away. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/88 "2009-04-17T18:02:33Z")
“…larger windows…” Here’s a pic comparing the [787 windows](http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/203841/) to smaller current industry windows. And another link that says they get a [50% weight savings](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VMX-4N8166N-2&_user=615015&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000032059&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=615015&md5=d4d9bd512aba2b1d8a0065026ceb8d4b) using the composite frame. This is all public marketing stuff though, but still probably close to the end-result product. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/89 "2009-04-17T18:22:58Z")
[QUOTE=bengangmo;11043099 Mostly when I fly, there is nothing to see out the windows - we are too far up or there is almost total cloud cover, and then the damn things are too small to be really useful anyway. But I do like to look[/QUOTE] Such has been my experience, but once in a while you do get to see something interesting. One time flying home from Las Vegas to L.A. it was well worth being near the window to view the desert in the late afternoon sun. The reddish cast of the light and long shadows of the outcroppings, starkly delineated, gave the Mojave an otherworldly appearance. Another time I was coming back from the East Coast, at night, and I looked up from my book to find Las Vegas passing by my window. This was long before Vegas became a sprawling megacity; it was then just a densely contained oasis of adult pleasures, isolated like a jewel on the breast of the desert. You may recognize the phrase “breast of the desert” from the opening lines of Arthur C. Clarke’s _The City And The Stars_, which was the book I happened to be reading. The lights of Vegas floated in a sea of darkness–a mere blip in my field of vision. I couldn’t help being reminded of the book, in which the remnants of humanity live in a single, utopian city billions of years in the future, while almost all the rest of the the Earth has withered to a desert. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/90 "2009-04-17T18:44:51Z")
**Spectre of Pithecanthropus** reminded me of one magic moment that I was able to capture photographically from a plane window: [Chicago](http://www.flickr.com/photos/75905404@N00/2122707101/). ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/91 "2009-04-22T20:11:13Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I thought the pressure difference was less than that, and Wikipedia gives a value of 7.5-8 psi. Sure, that sounds like even less, but still worth getting right (and I’d like a little safety margin, too). I’m guessing that’s for commercial airlines. Which sounds about right. They only fly at around 35,000’. The planes I do design work for cruise significantly higher - more like 50,000’. Still, at 7.5-8 psi, you still have several thousand pounds of pressure on that window. **ivn1188** , My original response was to your comment: > [@you](#): > > There’s no reason to worry about the structural disadvantages of windows. Your response was to my response to that comment. My response to your response to my response was still toward that original comment. If you’d agree that there is indeed a reason to worry about the structural disadvantages of windows, I’d be happy to move on. Yes, the problems due to windows are solved. No, they are not irrelevant. As a matter of fact they are quite significant. Obviously, the benefits outweight the consequences - otherwise there’d be no windows. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/92 "2009-04-22T20:37:16Z")
Having been aboard a submarine and on windowless aircraft, I’m all for them. It is all the nervous-nellies and crying babies that keep me awake that I could do without. Just sit down, shut up and take a nap while the pilot gets us from point A to point B. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/93 "2009-04-22T21:07:20Z")
Not that I necessarily agree with **Chronos** , but… > [@ivn1188](#): > > The view of those states is not appreciably different … except for the mountain ranges and maybe the coastlines. Ya _think_? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/94 "2009-04-22T21:17:45Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Hate to break it to you, but you’re pretty much screwed if your plane loses electrical power no matter how many windows the pilots have. Not so - provided the controls still work, the plane flies happily along. > [@](#): > > … it’s _really_ bad, because you can’t see how fast you’re going, or where you are, or how high you are, and most importantly, you can’t talk to ATC or a nearby airport to tell them you’re screwed. There’s no vital need to know how fast you are going. You can tell where you are by looking out the window. There’s no vital need to talk to ATC or anyone else. You simply need to find a runway - or other acceptable place (e.g. Hudson River) - and land. The challenge of doing this successfully will certainly increase with the size of the aircraft. ATC might well be able to provide considerable help, but they are not essential. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/95 "2009-04-24T13:13:46Z")
> [@solkoe](#): > > Well, as I said, are cameras with LCD screens not an option? Even for the pilots? The pilots need a 3D view with a large field of vision. That’s a bit hard to do with cameras. But its a great idea for passengers. Most large airliners already have the LCD screen in the seat back for movies. It should be fairly simple to have a feed from one or more external cameras on some of the channels. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/96 "2009-04-24T13:17:14Z")
> [@Mr Bus Guy](#): > > Maybe that’s why I never went in to the military, especially submarines. If someone tried to lock me into a tube, screaming through the air at 500 MPH, over 6 miles in the air, I’d crap myself. So would I if that tube was a submarine. ---
**Author:** ![Burls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Burls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burls)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/97 "2009-04-24T13:25:50Z")
Another advantage to window seats is not having to get up every time some one wants to go to the toilet, they have to make way for you at your convenience. This is usually the reason I want a window seat. Getting rid of the view would \*still \*make it a valuable seat in my eyes ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/98 "2009-04-24T14:05:21Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Occasionally there is: on my last trip to Australia I took [this picture of New Caledonia just before sunrise](http://www.flickr.com/photos/75905404@N00/3078460128/) (at least, I think it was New Caledonia: there isn’t any other land that big where the plane would have been at that time). I love to identify exactly what I am flying over. I think your photo is indeed of New Caledonia - to be precise, the coastline between Poum and Koumac, at the northern end of the island ([map](http://www.foretseche.nc/images/MapSiteFS.gif)). Assuming you’re flying roughly southwest. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/99 "2009-04-25T01:24:14Z")
> [@Imasquare](#): > > But its a great idea for passengers. Most large airliners already have the LCD screen in the seat back for movies. It should be fairly simple to have a feed from one or more external cameras on some of the channels. I wrote this twice already, I’ll write it once more: some companies, like JAL, already do this. It’s not that great. The resolution of the screens isn’t all that great and it’s hard to make out any detail. However, there’s another issue: seeing something on a screen isn’t the same thing as seeing it directly with your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203/100 "2009-04-25T10:52:44Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > > [@Imasquare](#): > > > > But its a great idea for passengers. Most large airliners already have the LCD screen in the seat back for movies. It should be fairly simple to have a feed from one or more external cameras on some of the channels. > > I wrote this twice already, I’ll write it once more: some companies, like JAL, already do this. Oh I’m sorry. I hope I haven’t ruined your weekend or anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-planes-have-windows/493203.md?page=6)