# Why do police care if people are flashing gang signs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 8, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932 "2015-10-08T15:26:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932/21 "2015-10-09T06:43:53Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Actually, they do. A desire to remain anonymous and difficult to identify by police was the motivation behind many gang members to wear plain white t-shirts. If everyone wore the same thing, no one would stand out and identifying any one specific suspect becomes difficult. It got very easy to identify the shitbags when they showed up at activities in white Tees blowing whistles in peoples faces. They tried pulling this shit at Greek Fest in Milwaukee County. The church that sponsored it moved the festival. Not only is it more successful than ever, the current location has a dedicated police force on top of 6 other area law enforcement agencies that can swoop in on mutual aid and help. It’s too bad that as dumb as the shitbags are their brains can still generate enough power to keep them [Breathing!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7WNip7cVy0) ---
**Author:** ![PurpleClogs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f04885/32.png) [@PurpleClogs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PurpleClogs)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932/22 "2015-10-09T10:48:40Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Actually, they do. A desire to remain anonymous and difficult to identify by police was the motivation behind many gang members to wear plain white t-shirts. Now it seems to be black hoodies. Even in the summertime! ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932/23 "2015-10-09T19:10:00Z")
Do-rags, big white t-shirts, puffy black coats, sagging pants, FUBU gear etc. The clothing/gear starts out as an identifier of sorts, becomes a status symbol and then so ubiquitous that its no longer a “clue”. When cell phones first came on the scene the drug dealers were the only ones who had them. We would arrest people (for whatever) with cell antennae on their cars but no cell phone on the inside. It was all for show. Same with the thick gold rope chains that were popular. Very few were real but everyone wanted to look like a player. I’ve watched the criminal element inspired fashion trends over the past many years. I wish I could predict what’s next. I could have a REAL gold rope. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932/24 "2015-10-10T09:37:49Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Such a law, as far as I know, is in force only in Chicago, so even that would not constitute something already illegal in the USA in general. Well its not only in Chicago, but the loitering issue is problematic everywhere… Because the “must have a reason” to be in a public place made too many people in trouble for loitering. the person who just walked out of their house for the sake of walking outside… Part of the problem, when you say “such a law” do you mean written law ? because in any legal system, the interpretation of the law by the court is what is actually “Law”, and in common law systems, an interpretation of the law can exist _without_ legislation to back it up … The “zero tolerance” thing in New York works because it then allows the trouble maker to be excluded based on their criminal record… Zero tolerance was a solution to including too many people in loitering, by including more people in the list of “people with criminal record”… And because the court would then give them an order rather than a criminal record… basically an order not to come to the park or mall or sidewalk and sit around all day… Certainly many jurisdictions have backed away from making loitering illegal, and rather given police and courts the power to issue orders , on the suspicion of intent… So as to break up the gang turf thing, and to disturb criminal intent (shoplift, pickpocket, bag snatching, swooping of unattended items such as bags or purses,peddling or buying contraband, etc) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932/25 "2015-10-10T09:55:55Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Because it causes a snowball effect. One shitbag flashes gang signs and a policeman > [@pkbites](#): > > sees it and gets in his face. Then more show up and so on. These turds take those things seriously and now you have a bunch of them in a confrontation, fights, shooting, etc… The neighbors and business don’t want that kind of thing happening. Gangs. Organised Crime. Call it what you will. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932/26 "2015-10-10T10:48:19Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Telling someone to straighten out their cap or turn their shirt inside out isn’t violating their rights. You could tell them the same thing. I certainly couldn’t charge them for telling me to pound sand over it but I can take them on prowling, disorderly conduct and such depending on the circumstances. This isn’t a challenge; Can you tell me what the workable definition of ‘prowling’ is? To me, prowling is walking around like you are looking for something, whereas ‘loitering’ would be just hanging around. And, is prowling really an arrestable offense? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932/27 "2015-10-10T21:15:07Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > This isn’t a challenge; Can you tell me what the workable definition of ‘prowling’ is? To me, prowling is walking around like you are looking for something, whereas ‘loitering’ would be just hanging around. And, is prowling really an arrestable offense? In many places “prowling” is a local ordinance offense and not a state criminal statute. YMMV depending on where you live. In Wisconsin although ordinance violations are not crimes and you can’t do jail time for them you can be arrested and made to post bond or sit in a cell until you see a judge who sets a trial date. Many prowling laws follow a format of “at a time or in a manner not usual for law-abiding individuals”. An example would be hanging out on the property of a business that is closed. We’ll charge both prowling and trespass (if the place is posted) and the city attorney will take a plea for one of them and drop the other. Because the bangers know they’re going to get hooked up and it will take 6-12 hours to get bailed out this is an effective tool for keeping them from congregating in open places like that. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932/28 "2015-10-12T09:49:09Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Did you not read the totality of responses? This question seems quite disingenuous, like you’re going out of your way to not understand. If he treads on their rights it’s to prevent serious violence, not to satisfy his fashion sensibilities. I understand perfectly, and see no difference. He is abusing his authority by pretending to have the power to something he can’t. He even had to rationalize it to himself. Unless he thinks he is committing a crime, he should not be harassing citizens. This is the type of stuff that makes me and a lot of people completely distrust cops. I actually had a much bigger post here that was far more damning, but I lost it when my Internet went out. Suffice it to say I find this type of behavior unacceptable in the police force, and honestly think we should be trying to filter out those who get a thrill out of a power trip like this. I’m tired of living with police we can’t trust. I hate that my response to the police is to identify myself and ask if I can leave. I should be able to help law enforcement, but I can’t. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932/29 "2015-10-12T10:24:03Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Unless he thinks he is committing a crime, he should not be harassing citizens. You are aware that when we tell someone to straighten out their cap they’ve already been detained for something, correct? You didn’t think I’m just pulling up to someone and telling them to do it? And usually it starts with a verbal judo tactic: _“Hey, can you do me a big favor and straighten out your cap?”_ It’s up to them what the tone of the contact is going to be. I have asked guys walking past me at events like Summerfest to do it even though there was no detainment. 9 out of 10 comply even if it’s just until I get out of sight. The 1 guy that goes \*“why?” \*get’s a _“this is a family atmosphere and we would appreciate nobody getting the wrong idea about anything”._ Then 9 out of 10 of those guys comply. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932/30 "2015-10-13T01:47:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Suffice it to say I find this type of behavior unacceptable in the police force, and honestly think we should be trying to filter out those who get a thrill out of a power trip like this. Who gives a fat rat’s ass about the rights of these subhuman pieces of detritus anyway? My wife, who was born deaf, lost one of her elementary school classmates to a banger at the corner of Devonshire and Balboa in Granada Hills a decade or so back. Gunned down in cold blood because he was flashing those ‘gang signs’ that deaf people have a tendency to use… If we’re in a bad neighborhood and she even signs a simple ILY or “I have to pee,” I immediately grab her arm and give her the death stare. Fuck those clowns. If **pkbites** wants to take them all out to the desert, put a round through their heads and toss the bodies down a mine shaft, nothing would make me happier. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932/31 "2015-10-13T02:02:39Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > Who gives a fat rat’s ass about the rights of these subhuman pieces of detritus anyway? Protecting their rights is the same as protecting yours. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932/32 "2015-10-13T18:13:23Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > Who gives a fat rat’s ass about the rights of these subhuman pieces of detritus anyway? My wife, who was born deaf, lost one of her elementary school classmates to a banger at the corner of Devonshire and Balboa in Granada Hills a decade or so back. Gunned down in cold blood because he was flashing those ‘gang signs’ that deaf people have a tendency to use… If we’re in a bad neighborhood and she even signs a simple ILY or “I have to pee,” I immediately grab her arm and give her the death stare. Fuck those clowns. If **pkbites** wants to take them all out to the desert, put a round through their heads and toss the bodies down a mine shaft, nothing would make me happier. How would you feel if pkbites collected your wife for “flashing gang signs” during one of these roundups? Why would you believe for an instant that cops are better at identifying gang signs than gang members? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932/33 "2015-10-20T00:03:31Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > In many places “prowling” is a local ordinance offense and not a state criminal statute. YMMV depending on where you live. In Wisconsin although ordinance violations are not crimes and you can’t do jail time for them you can be arrested and made to post bond or sit in a cell until you see a judge who sets a trial date. > > Many prowling laws follow a format of “at a time or in a manner not usual for law-abiding individuals”. An example would be hanging out on the property of a business that is closed. We’ll charge both prowling and trespass (if the place is posted) and the city attorney will take a plea for one of them and drop the other. > Because the bangers know they’re going to get hooked up and it will take 6-12 hours to get bailed out this is an effective tool for keeping them from congregating in open places like that. Thank you, **pkbites**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-care-if-people-are-flashing-gang-signs/733932.md?page=1)