# Why do police not show up in court for traffic cases? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 13, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490 "2018-03-13T14:52:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/41 "2018-03-14T14:20:46Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I presented facts and asked a question. There is no premise. In your single experience the officers showed up, but in mine they didn’t. What is there to dispute? The title of your thread and the last line of the OP imply this is a general phenomenon, rather than a single observation on your part. You could have said, “Why didn’t the officer show up for my traffic case?” ---
**Author:** ![Deser2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dfb087/32.png) [@Deser2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deser2)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/42 "2018-03-14T15:19:02Z")
Years ago I was driving from Long Island into NYC with my sister and 2 friends. Got stuck behind a lawn care truck going 10mph through the midtown tunnel. The truck was 3 cars in front of me. the cars between me and the truck eventually changed lanes (illegal in the midtown tunnel). I checked my rearview, saw what I thought was a firetruck behind me and changed lanes. Turns out it was an MTA officer. He asked for my info came back and asked if I had ever received a moving violation (I had not). He told me flat out “Fight the ticket”. Knowing how things work around here, I figured he was giving me a break since I wasn’t a jerk about the situation and that he just wasn’t going to show up for the trail date. This had happened to numerous friends of mine and same as above, if the officer doesn’t show, ticket gets dismissed. Court day comes around. It’s a room with a ton of people that were fighting tickets with a judge and clerk sitting behind a desk up front. After a while they call my name I look around and dont see the officer that wrote me the ticket. Great, I think, no ticket for me. Start walking up to stand in front of the judge and sure enough, officer walks through the door. Damn. So much for that. Now here is where it gets weird (and maybe the cop responding in this thread can confirm my suspicions). Now like I said, this cop told me to fight the ticket. The judge asks me if I have a lawyer or any witnesses with me (no). He then turns to the cop and asks “Officer so and so, do you recall pulling over Mr. Deser for the stated violation on such and such a day?” The cop shuffles his papers looks in his note book and responds “No I have no recollection”. The judge says, “do you want a minute to look through your notes?” Cop says he doesn’t have them. Ticket gets dismissed. Now in my mind I feel like the cop would have been better off just not showing up. Granted he probably was being paid to be there and maybe he had other cases but even then, not showing probably wouldn’t have made him look as bad in front of the judge as saying “I forgot my homework” basically. Any inkling as why the cop chose that method of getting me out of the ticket as opposed to not showing? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/43 "2018-03-14T15:29:31Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The title of your thread and the last line of the OP imply this is a general phenomenon, rather than a single observation on your part. You could have said, “Why didn’t the officer show up for my traffic case?” Well, since a Moderator is joining the fray, I feel compelled to respond. I would hope that one would read the entire post, not just the title or last line, especially before posting a criticism. If I had asked, “Why didn’t the officer show up for my traffic case?”, the answer would be, “Nobody knows except the officer. Go ask him.” So I must ask about the general case. And there are some thoughtful answers. The title is a rhetorical device that you see here all the time. If someone is stuck in line at the grocery store behind someone writing a check, they will post, “Why do people still write checks at the grocery store?” and it is broadly understood to mean “some people,” not “all” or “most” or even “a lot of.” Even if, for the sake of argument, one takes this as my premise, the single experience of Doug K. does not refute the premise; his was described as a single case. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/44 "2018-03-14T15:41:57Z")
> [@Deser2](#): > > Any inkling as why the cop chose that method of getting me out of the ticket as opposed to not showing? You’d have to ask the police officer for his reasons but I suspect that: (1) he was probably getting paid to show up, so why wouldn’t he show up? (2) He may have had to testify in more than one case that day and the judge may already have known he was in court. Pretending to be missing just for your ticket would have looked even weirder. (3) I doubt anyone in his chain of command was in court that day, they don’t care about the outcome of the ticket appeal, and no one is going to ask whether or check up later about why he lost the appeal so losing his “homework” doesn’t make him look bad to anyone that matters to him. I wonder why he didn’t just write a warning instead of a ticket to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/45 "2018-03-14T15:49:18Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Really? We drive down from Milwaukee every 2 weeks or so to see our grand kids. I never see a trooper with someone pulled over. In fact I never see a trooper running radar/laser/VASCAR or any Cessnas above. And the flow of traffic is always well above 80, even in the mid-upper 90’s. I really find that baffling. I routinely see cops on the way up and down. You see them more during rush times. Never seen a Cessna, though. Do they even do that in Illinois? I do report similar traffic flow as you, though I only experience 80-85 at the very most. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen mid-upper 90s except for a stray vehicle here and there. Traffic slows down quickly when a cop is spotted by the wave of traffic up ahead. I mean, I don’t make the trip as often as you; maybe a dozen to fifteen times in a year when I was traveling more regularly up there, but I’ve never noticed a lack of police. Same heading towards St. Louis or Iowa. It’s quiet most of the way, but there are pockets with troopers hanging out, especially on holiday weekends. ---
**Author:** ![Deser2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dfb087/32.png) [@Deser2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deser2)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/46 "2018-03-14T15:53:52Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > You’d have to ask the police officer for his reasons but I suspect that: (1) he was probably getting paid to show up, so why wouldn’t he show up? (2) He may have had to testify in more than one case that day and the judge may already have known he was in court. Pretending to be missing just for your ticket would have looked even weirder. (3) I doubt anyone in his chain of command was in court that day, they don’t care about the outcome of the ticket appeal, and no one is going to ask whether or check up later about why he lost the appeal so losing his “homework” doesn’t make him look bad to anyone that matters to him. > > I wonder why he didn’t just write a warning instead of a ticket to begin with. Obviously none of us know what that particular person was thinking but I was wondering if any cops have done this. And I’d also argue that a judge you appear in front of regularly would be someone that matters to him. I agree about the warning - not sure why he didn’t go that route (quota maybe, although this was MTA and not NYPD so not certain) but outside of all that, looking stupid in front of anyone is something I usually try and avoid. Just very strange. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/47 "2018-03-14T16:32:32Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yeah, I got one here in Chicago, too, a few years ago. Not Chicago Police, but State Police. Had to get it fixed and show up at court. I didn’t have anywhere to be that day, so it didn’t matter, but they went through the full docket and I was still there. They turned to me to ask what I was still doing there, I said I was supposed to be in court for a ticket, and apparently they somehow just missed my name or something, because they just said, yeah, we’re all good, go on your way, without seeing any of the evidence I brought with me that I had the problem fixed. > > At any rate, I only have a sample of two, but both times the officer showed up to court. I mean, if they routinely didn’t show up, don’t you think most people would play the game? (Not directed specifically at the OP, but to other speculators). It’s well known around here that you can roll the dice and hope for the cop not to show up, but it’s a fairly long bet. Rather, you show up for court hoping you can plead guilty and get supervision. This means the moving violation doesn’t show up on your driving record as long as you don’t get another moving violation within six months. That’s what I did the other time twenty years ago I found myself in traffic court for rolling a stop. (Of course, these are specific to my jurisdiction. Yours may operate differently.) Many years ago, we got a ticket for a taillight showing white. We’d painted the bulb red, but the paint had flaked off. This was in northern Illinois – Woodstock, I think. There was an officer and a trainee in the squad car, so I think that may have been part of the reason we were ticketed. I showed up at court with proof that we had had the car fixed the next day. I spoke briefly with the prosecuting attorney, then the case was called, and she told the judge that charges were being dropped. The judge was visibly surprised, from which I take it that didn’t happen very often. I credit the dismissal at least in part to the fact that, having never been to court before, I dressed as I would for a client meeting – suit, pantyhose, heels. Everyone else was wearing jeans or cutoffs. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/48 "2018-03-14T16:40:57Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > The title is a rhetorical device that you see here all the time. If someone is stuck in line at the grocery store behind someone writing a check, they will post, “Why do people still write checks at the grocery store?” and it is broadly understood to mean “some people,” not “all” or “most” or even “a lot of.” Yes, it’s a rhetorical device. But it’s one intended to indicate that this a general or widespread phenomenon that requires an explanation, not an individual case that may not be typical or have an idiosyncratic explanation. I don’t particularly like this rhetorical device, _because it prompts people to point out that this may not in fact be a general case._ People will nitpick any overly broad assumptions made by the OP; it’s best not to give them the chance. > [@](#): > > Even if, for the sake of argument, one takes this as my premise, the single experience of Doug K. does not refute the premise; his was described as a single case. Yes, but you opened the door for exactly that kind of post by implying that your case was the general rule. You could have avoided this by phrasing your question more carefully. You could have said, “The officer didn’t show up for my case. Is this common? What might be the reasons he didn’t do so?” ---
**Author:** ![Deser2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dfb087/32.png) [@Deser2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deser2)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/49 "2018-03-14T16:47:53Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Yes, it’s a rhetorical device. But it’s one intended to indicate that this a general or widespread phenomenon that requires an explanation, not an individual case that may not be typical or have an idiosyncratic explanation. > > I don’t particularly like this rhetorical device, _because it prompts people to point out that this may not in fact be a general case._ People will nitpick any overly broad assumptions made by the OP; it’s best not to give them the chance. > > Yes, but you opened the door for exactly that kind of post by implying that your case was the general rule. You could have avoided this by phrasing your question more carefully. You could have said, “The officer didn’t show up for my case. Is this common? What might be the reasons he didn’t do so?” Happens all the time in the NYC/Long Island area so it def seems to happen more often than you believe. Maybe just let the semantics on this one drop because seems like most of the other people in the thread understood the OPs sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/50 "2018-03-14T18:23:07Z")
> [@Deser2](#): > > Happens all the time in the NYC/Long Island area so it def seems to happen more often than you believe. Irrelevant unless it happens most of the time everywhere. Clearly this is not the case. > [@](#): > > Maybe just let the semantics on this one drop because seems like most of the other people in the thread understood the OPs sentiment. Obviously some don’t, or we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I’m merely urging posters to take more care before indulging in this rhetorical device, because it is guaranteed to lead to nitpicking the premise. You don’t have to do so, but don’t be surprised when people give counter examples. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/51 "2018-03-14T18:47:53Z")
Title hereby virtually amended to read: **Why do police not show up in court for traffic cases in those instances where they do not show up?** ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/52 "2018-03-14T19:03:55Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Title hereby virtually amended to read: > > **Why do police not show up in court for traffic cases in those instances where they do not show up?** Much better.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/53 "2018-03-15T00:34:29Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I really find that baffling. I routinely see cops on the way up and down. Are you taking 94 down out of Wisconsin? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a traffic survey (i.e. speed trap) set up by a trooper or a County Dep on that route. We went down to Rosemont last Friday to spend the weekend and see a show. I was literally going over 90 and was passed by everyone. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/54 "2018-03-15T00:47:44Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Are you taking 94 down out of Wisconsin? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a traffic survey (i.e. speed trap) set up by a trooper or a County Dep on that route. > > We went down to Rosemont last Friday to spend the weekend and see a show. I was literally going over 90 and was passed by everyone. Yep, 41/94, down to 94, down to 294 this last Wednesday. So if you went to Rosemont, I assume you probably were also on 294. At least two cars pulled over, and a couple more cops I saw in the median. I mean, the 90mph and being passed is outside my experience, else I would have brought up in the “should I yell at my husband for speeding” thread, where I said, “hey, traffic is routinely 80-85 on some of the highways here outside of rush hour.” That would have helped my point if I had actually experienced it. I mean, yes, I’ll do 80 and occasionally some jackass flies by me on the left, but I don’t ever remember a full stream of traffic doing over 90. I mean, I don’t really have any reason to doubt you, but that is very much outside my experience. (I even leaned over to my wife and said “My, traffic is really _zippy_ today” and pointed out we were doing 85 mph, meaning that it was on the higher end of what I’m used to.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/55 "2018-03-15T01:19:16Z")
> [@Deser2](#): > > Years ago I was driving from Long Island into NYC with my sister and 2 friends. Got stuck behind a lawn care truck going 10mph through the midtown tunnel. The truck was 3 cars in front of me. the cars between me and the truck eventually changed lanes (illegal in the midtown tunnel). I checked my rearview, saw what I thought was a firetruck behind me and changed lanes. Turns out it was an MTA officer. 😕 Did you pass them, too? Why didn’t the slowpoke get it for obstructing traffic? ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/56 "2018-03-15T01:35:33Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > But that’s still shitty. It seems set up for people to pay the fine and just go away rather than have their day in court. Here the court cost is built into the fine stated on the cite. The actual fine is the deposit plus all the other costs incorporated and then added to it. > [Here](https://www.wicourts.gov/publications/fees/docs/bondsched17.pdf) is a copy of our bond schedule every officer carries. You’ll see how it works. > > AFAIK there are no further fees if one fights the cite unless you request a jury trial. Then you will pay a jury fee unless you are found not guilty. > > This is not legal advice, I am not a lawyer, yadda yadda yadda. Not really. As a local judge explained to me, adding court costs when there were no actual court costs would be as dishonest as hiding the speed limit sign at the edge of town behind a tree and stationing an officer behind a billboard. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/57 "2018-03-15T03:03:24Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > But that’s still shitty. It seems set up for people to pay the fine and just go away rather than have their day in court. Here the court cost is built into the fine stated on the cite. The actual fine is the deposit plus all the other costs incorporated and then added to it. > [Here](https://www.wicourts.gov/publications/fees/docs/bondsched17.pdf) is a copy of our bond schedule every officer carries. You’ll see how it works. > > AFAIK there are no further fees if one fights the cite unless you request a jury trial. Then you will pay a jury fee unless you are found not guilty. > > This is not legal advice, I am not a lawyer, yadda yadda yadda. Court costs are like $30. It’s not enough to force people from pleading not guilty. It may be done that way because of how the funds are allocated. Around 90% of the money from fines go to the state not the local government. Court costs go directly to the court to offset tye expenses of running the court. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/58 "2018-03-15T07:54:48Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Really? We drive down from Milwaukee every 2 weeks or so to see our grand kids. I never see a trooper with someone pulled over. In fact I never see a trooper running radar/laser/VASCAR or any Cessnas above. And the flow of traffic is always well above 80, even in the mid-upper 90’s. > > I did get stopped about 3 years ago in southern Ill-annoy but by a County Dep not a trooper while returning from St. Louis. First time since 1996 that happened. I’m sure **[deleted]** can explain the global conspiracy as to why I didn’t get cited. I agree with **pulykamell**. I see state troopers pulling people over all the time. and absolutely always hanging out on medians or just out of sight near bridge abutments. A family member who is a Cook County Sheriff actually got a ticket from one of the troopers on the I-90. :dubious: Question; Depts actually use Cessna’s? I honestly though the whole “Speed limit enforced by aircraft” was a crock to scare because it must cost a lot to have that kind of monitoring. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/59 "2018-03-15T08:01:55Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > Question; Depts actually use Cessna’s? I honestly though the whole “Speed limit enforced by aircraft” was a crock to scare because it must cost a lot to have that kind of monitoring. The Ohio Highway Patrol has 14 of them. Speed enforcement isn’t the only thing they’re used for, but they do get used for that. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2018, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490/60 "2018-03-15T11:33:09Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > I agree with **pulykamell**. I see state troopers pulling people over all the time. and absolutely always hanging out on medians or just out of sight near bridge abutments. I’m down there every other week and have never seen this. And if it’s so I have to wonder what their tolerance is. Traffic flow in Wisconsin is never above 85 like it is in the Flatlands. If troopers are around so much folks must not give a spit. > [@anomalous1](#): > > A family member who is a Cook County Sheriff actually got a ticket from one of the troopers on the I-90. :dubious: Is he the actual Sheriff or a Sheriffs Deputy? It’s a significant difference. But yeah, the state boys up here don’t honor professional courtesy either. Good friend of mine actually got cited by one while in a marked squad car speeding without lights/siren. I shit you not! > [@anomalous1](#): > > Question; Depts actually use Cessna’s? I honestly though the whole “Speed limit enforced by aircraft” was a crock to scare because it must cost a lot to have that kind of monitoring. Wisconsin uses them. They use VASCAR in them and then radio a squad down below about a violator. Your Valentine One isn’t going to help you with that either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-police-not-show-up-in-court-for-traffic-cases/810490.md?page=4)