# Why do powerful nations respect North Korea's autonomy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-powerful-nations-respect-north-koreas-autonomy/766042 "2016-09-15T21:32:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-powerful-nations-respect-north-koreas-autonomy/766042/81 "2016-09-29T20:55:11Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > … BTW **LSLGuy** , did you do a tour of duty in Korea? I understand that many Viper pilots get stationed in South Korea at some point in their careers. Nope. Both my USAF jobs had a lot of people who either had been or would later be stationed there. So although I missed going there myself I worked closely with lots of people with first-hand experience. As you suggest. In that era NK was still quite the hot issue within the DoD. So the politico-military situation on the Peninsula was a significant part of professional interest and professional education. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Who? > … :smack: ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-powerful-nations-respect-north-koreas-autonomy/766042/82 "2016-09-29T21:26:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, the best case is a (relatively) bloodless internal collapse _if_ the Chinese let it happen (or encourage it to happen) without trying to intervene militarily. As I’ve said before, the best case scenario for the rest of the world is also the worst case scenario for the people of North Korea, ie a nice, lethal, fast-acting and spreading plague. One with about a 95% mortality rate. Get the population down to 5 million or so and reintegration of the peninsula is a possibility. Hell, just cleaning up the DMZ will take billions of dollars and several decades of effort. Feeding and containing 25 million ignorant, starving, brain-washed peasants until they can be retrained would collapse the economy of the planet, even if you _could_ get everybody on board. But the problem is too large for a couple of “Korea-Aid” concerts and a few tip jars to solve, and any politician that runs on a “Beggar us to help the North Koreans” platform will find themselves turfed out in a fortnight. We could hope for an asteroid strike, I suppose. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-powerful-nations-respect-north-koreas-autonomy/766042/83 "2016-09-29T21:48:01Z")
Benevolent aliens come to Earth and in looking for a place to land their 25 x 100 mile spaceship, reason that the place on Earth with the least amount of nighttime light is the least inhabited and crunch goes North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-powerful-nations-respect-north-koreas-autonomy/766042/84 "2016-09-29T22:11:48Z")
The only way the US will go to war with North Korea and UN okay with it is if it did some thing really stupid like attack on US navy ship, attack in south Korea, attack on Japan or Hawaii!! Or a attack of shore close to US city. So with North Korea that likes to send missiles and even crude nukes and attacks in Oceans trying improve the range and provoke a response from UN it will have to make sure it never hits ship, land, attack in south Korea, attack on Japan or Hawaii or of shore close to US city. Such attack even if only 10 people die will be end of North Korea. There is no way the US and the UN will allow North Korea missiles or even crude nukes hinting land well North Korea improves it range and technology. This only way I would see US will go to war with North Korea. A missile or even crude nuke of shore close to LA would be end to North Korea. I don’t see the US or UN okay of supporting war any other way. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-powerful-nations-respect-north-koreas-autonomy/766042/85 "2016-09-29T23:05:43Z")
> [@XT](#): > > When did China reform it’s civil rights? You mean switching from a one child to a two child policy? Other than that, I can’t think of what civil rights reforms they have done. > > I suppose anything would be better than what the North Koreans currently have, but I wouldn’t say that having China take over and model them after China would be ‘the best outcome’…it would just be less bad than what they have now. I was under the impression they had made meaningful reforms. Politifact said it is a mostly false statement though. > **[Does the world agree that China has made 'enormous progress' on human rights?](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/nov/17/xi-jinping/chinese-president-world-agrees-china-had-made-enor/)** > > During a trip to Beijing this week, President Barack Obama announced major agreements with China, one to reduce carbon e This said the worst since 1989. [http://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/hotan-02162015160611.html/humanrights-02162015165824.html](http://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/hotan-02162015160611.html/humanrights-02162015165824.html) I thought they were making constant improvement since 1978. I guess not. That is disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-powerful-nations-respect-north-koreas-autonomy/766042/86 "2016-09-30T00:25:04Z")
They had made some pretty significant gains. Albeit from a very low base. At their best we’d still consider them a police state by our standards. Then the current administration of Xi Jinping took over. It’s been mostly back to the bad old days since then. Net net things currently aren’t materially better than 20ish years ago. Some rearrangement of the oppression deck chairs over that time but that’s about it. Although with the internet there’s a lot more opportunity for the public to know about, and mutter about, the problems of the day. Despite very aggressive efforts by the Party to control all speech on the net. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-powerful-nations-respect-north-koreas-autonomy/766042/87 "2016-10-01T04:45:45Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > Such attack even if only 10 people die will be end of North Korea. I think this would draw the “(somewhat) proportional response.” Maybe something like Operation Desert Fox, with limited airstrikes, but no way the US incurs a massive full-out assault, Operation Iraqi Freedom-type regime change operation on North Korea over an attack killing just ten Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-powerful-nations-respect-north-koreas-autonomy/766042/88 "2016-10-01T04:46:56Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Nope. > > Both my USAF jobs had a lot of people who either had been or would later be stationed there. So although I missed going there myself I worked closely with lots of people with first-hand experience. As you suggest. > > In that era NK was still quite the hot issue within the DoD. So the politico-military situation on the Peninsula was a significant part of professional interest and professional education. Interesting, thanks. Was just curious. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-powerful-nations-respect-north-koreas-autonomy/766042/89 "2016-10-04T04:15:29Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > They had made some pretty significant gains. Albeit from a very low base. At their best we’d still consider them a police state by our standards. Then the current administration of Xi Jinping took over. It’s been mostly back to the bad old days since then. > > Net net things currently aren’t materially better than 20ish years ago. Some rearrangement of the oppression deck chairs over that time but that’s about it. Although with the internet there’s a lot more opportunity for the public to know about, and mutter about, the problems of the day. Despite very aggressive efforts by the Party to control all speech on the net. I don’t think in today’s world you can control speech. Lots of Chinese’s are using proxies and vpn’s to bypass the internet firewall in China. It is matter of time before they start to pass reform bills. It is really hard in today’s world to control every thing. With out shutting everything down and using radio jamming like in North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Arthias](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f19dbf/32.png) [@Dr.Arthias](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Arthias)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-powerful-nations-respect-north-koreas-autonomy/766042/90 "2023-07-21T15:39:26Z")
This is my post from several years ago and I wish I could delete it. I was extremely ignorant of this topic back then, calling for an attack on a sovereign nation and wrongly accusing all its leadership of being fascists. This is the epitome of cringe stupidity and it should be scrubbed from the internet. Man, what capitalist propaganda will do to a mf… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-powerful-nations-respect-north-koreas-autonomy/766042/91 "2023-07-21T16:35:15Z")
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**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-powerful-nations-respect-north-koreas-autonomy/766042/92 "2023-07-21T16:36:35Z")
**Moderating:** And while we don’t delete threads or posts in general, especially old ones. We do close them when they start generating flags about very old posts. I’ll leave this one closed. A new thread on the subject could be started. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-powerful-nations-respect-north-koreas-autonomy/766042.md?page=4)