# Why do pro-lifers make exceptions for rape and incest? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013 "2018-06-29T19:09:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/21 "2018-06-29T20:22:20Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > If it’s her body and she can do what she wants with it, can she inject heroin into it? Refuse to wear a seat belt around it on a public highway? Prostitute it? It would seem like the last three should not only be legal but constitutionally protected under the “It’s my body, I’ll do what I want with it” argument. That’s why a lot of people have a problem with the court’s stance on abortion. The government obviously can regulate medical procedures, or prostitution or any other thing having to do with your body and your privacy. Why did this one get cherry-picked as sacrosanct? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/22 "2018-06-29T20:23:17Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > If it’s her body and she can do what she wants with it, can she inject heroin into it? Refuse to wear a seat belt around it on a public highway? Prostitute it? It would seem like the last three should not only be legal but constitutionally protected under the “It’s my body, I’ll do what I want with it” argument. Yes, she should be able to inject heroin into it, and prostitute it. The seatbelt thing is a little different. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/23 "2018-06-29T20:25:05Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This is the correct answer. A woman who engages in vaginal intercourse assumes the risk of pregnancy. Indeed, that’s the very reason animals do that sort of thing on a biological level. So the fetus isn’t a living thing that needs protection from murder if the mother didn’t consent to the intercourse? That doesn’t seem to make much sense. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/24 "2018-06-29T20:29:11Z")
> [@Warm\_blood](#): > > Because they’re not really pro-life, they’re pro-controlling women’s bodies… Pro-choice people don’t really believe in a woman’s right to choose, they’re just racists who are so committed to their white separatism that they’ll sacrifice a few white babies for the sake of killing proportionally more brown folk > **[Abortion rates by race and ethnicity](https://www.guttmacher.org/infographic/2017/abortion-rates-race-and-ethnicity)** I believe the abortion of this, and your, strawbabiy to be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Warm\_blood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Warm\_blood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Warm_blood)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/25 "2018-06-29T20:32:33Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > But why should viability make a difference? The argument for pro-choice is “A woman should decide what to do with her body.” A 9-month old is occupying her uterus just like a 2-month old is, so why shouldn’t she be allowed to abort in both cases? Because being pro-choice doesn’t mean you throw common sense and ethics out of window. Fetuses at the pre-viability stage aren’t persons in any sense of the word. They’re really just parasites feeding off of the host’s body, and the pro-life argument is that it’s murder to terminate a pregnancy at any stage no matter how early because it has the capacity to become a person if it’s not one already. The argument of the pro-choice crowd has never been “it’s okay to kill a perfectly healthy and viable baby because it inconveniences you”. The argument is that it makes no logical sense to give what is essentially a cluster of cells more rights over the fully formed, legal person whose body is housing and devoting resources to that cluster of cells that has no personhood of any kind. IMO, it’s akin to calling chemotherapy murder. A 9 month old fetus isn’t just a fetus, it’s a baby. It’s a person. Condoning the abortion of 9 month old fetuses for non-medical reasons would practically be no different than tolerating infanticide. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/26 "2018-06-29T20:32:43Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > One of the reasons is that, in cases of rape and incest, the woman did not consent to the intercourse If the incest was not rape, then yes, she did. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/27 "2018-06-29T20:34:42Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > Pro-choice people don’t really believe in a woman’s right to choose, they’re just racists who are so committed to their white separatism that they’ll sacrifice a few white babies for the sake of killing proportionally more brown folk > > [Abortion rates by race and ethnicity | Guttmacher Institute](https://www.guttmacher.org/infographic/2017/abortion-rates-race-and-ethnicity) > > I believe the abortion of this, and your, strawbabiy to be wrong. :smack: It is not like women only have so many babies to make and an aborted one means one less in the world. Any given woman will be willing to have X-number of babies in her life. Just because she aborts when she is 16 does not mean she will not have children when she is 26. If she was forced to have her baby at 16 then she may well skip having one at 26. The minority community is not losing population because of abortion. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/28 "2018-06-29T20:51:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The minority community is not losing population because of abortion. Cite? That pretty much ignores everything we know about the demographics of abortion. Black women are 5 times more likely than white women to have an abortion and Latinas are twice as likely. Black women are more likely than white women to have an abortion across every income demographic except the extremely impoverished. Even controlling for education and geography, black women are more likely than white women to have an abortion. 60% of abortions are to women that already have a child and are in their 20s. It’s not scared little 16 year old who made a mistake having abortions (teens only make up 12% of abortions, there are twice as many women over 30 having abortions than women under 20.) It’s women typically in difficult economic circumstances who can’t afford another child. It’s always hard to know what someone would do after their abortion, but it’s very, very likely that the minority population in the US would be significantly higher if abortions had been magically done away with over the last 40 years. It’s also likely that these new children would be disproportionately poor. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/29 "2018-06-29T20:58:19Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > :smack: > > It is not like women only have so many babies to make and an aborted one means one less in the world. > > Any given woman will be willing to have X-number of babies in her life. Just because she aborts when she is 16 does not mean she will not have children when she is 26. > > If she was forced to have her baby at 16 then she may well skip having one at 26. > > The minority community is not losing population because of abortion. I was being facetious, I thought declaring that I was aborting a strawbaby made that clear. I just get sick of people instantly jumping to the worst possible motivation rather than the far simpler one of: these people actually believe abortion is morally wrong. Also, does anyone have stats on a correlation between being pro-life and anti-aid to mothers amongst the general population or is that pulled from an orifice too? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/30 "2018-06-29T21:04:01Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > Cite? That pretty much ignores everything we know about the demographics of abortion. Black women are 5 times more likely than white women to have an abortion and Latinas are twice as likely. Black women are more likely than white women to have an abortion across every income demographic except the extremely impoverished. Even controlling for education and geography, black women are more likely than white women to have an abortion. 60% of abortions are to women that already have a child and are in their 20s. It’s not scared little 16 year old who made a mistake having abortions (teens only make up 12% of abortions, there are twice as many women over 30 having abortions than women under 20.) It’s women typically in difficult economic circumstances who can’t afford another child. > > It’s always hard to know what someone would do after their abortion, but it’s very, very likely that the minority population in the US would be significantly higher if abortions had been magically done away with over the last 40 years. It’s also likely that these new children would be disproportionately poor. Indeed, the “Roe Hypothesis” theorizes that abortion has been a big indirect boon to pro-lifers because pro-choicers are in a certain sense aborting their own future pro-choice voters. That’s another reason Republicans would lose big if they truly banned abortion in the land. Abortion has prevented a lot of Democratic voters from being born and the Republicans would be losing elections in landslides if it weren’t for that. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/31 "2018-06-29T21:41:20Z")
Because they recognize that abortion always represents a weighing of the mother’s autonomy interest and the fetus/unborn child’s life interest. They value the fetal life interest very high, such that it ordinarily outweighs the mother’s autonomy interest. When the pregnancy is the product of rape or incest, however, the infringement on the mother’s autonomy is that much greater, enough to override the interests of the fetus. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/32 "2018-06-29T22:23:27Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Because they recognize that abortion always represents a weighing of the mother’s autonomy interest and the fetus/unborn child’s life interest. They value the fetal life interest very high, such that it ordinarily outweighs the mother’s autonomy interest. When the pregnancy is the product of rape or incest, however, the infringement on the mother’s autonomy is that much greater, enough to override the interests of the fetus. That’s a more succinct version of what I said, thanks. The only reason some people see a rape or incest exception to an abortion ban as a ‘contradiction’ is that _they_ insist the only way to look at the issue is as if either a) it’s exactly the same as an already born child and the mother would have no right to end that child’s life so why this one? or b) it’s a ‘lump of cells’, like a bunion on one’s foot, so who else’s business would it be for the person to have it removed? But those are not the only two ways to think of it. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/33 "2018-06-29T22:29:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Because, while she can do what she wants with her body, the fetus is not a part of her body. She has only the right of eviction. This is the basis of the right to abortion. It’s just that, before viability, there’s no practical difference in kicking the fetus or embryo out and killing it. > > We’d have to be fools to saying their exceptions were wrong without having a firm moral foundation for our own exceptions, wouldn’t you think? > > There’s a good reason to reject “both sides” arguments. They rarely work. Can she do what she likes with her internal organs? If a woman asked a doctor to remove her kidney to sell or just because she doesn’t like that kidney would that be legal? Obviously laws exist governing what you do with your body. Is the fetus her property? There’s plenty of laws & regulations regarding disposal of property too. If it isn’t her property, part of her body or it’s own person, what is it? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/34 "2018-06-29T22:54:54Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yes, she should be able to inject heroin into it, and prostitute it. The seatbelt thing is a little different. The question is not should it be legal, but does the Constitution require it to be legal. I find it hard to believe that the founding fathers believed a right of a woman to prostitute herself. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/35 "2018-06-29T23:57:13Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Just to be clear, I do NOT think abortions should be denied to rape victims or women who’ve had incestuous relationships. Actually, as much as I dislike abortion, I don’t think it should be denied to anyone. > > The ongoing _Roe_ v. _Wade_ thread reminded me of questions I’ve had for a long time. Why do pro-lifers believe abortion is murder but make exceptions for rape and incest? If you believe abortion is the murder of an innocent person, do rape and incest constitute justifiable homicide to you? If the reasoning is that a woman who’s been raped has been traumatized, and pregnancy and birth would be too emotionally damaging to her, why not make exceptions for women who haven’t been raped but for whom pregnancy would be seriously emotionally damaging? > > As for incest, is the exclusion due to fears of fetal defects? If so, then why the OK for that but not for severe fetal defects NOT from inbreeding? > > I assume there are answers. I just can’t figure out what they are. The most common reason is simply and solely because (A) the life of the mother, (B) rape, (C) incest, are **very, very often lumped together, even though they have nothing in common**. It is quite rare that any poll or policy-maker talks about (A) without also including (B) and (C). I believe that a genuine threat to the life of the mother is a potentially-valid reason for an abortion–one that the family should decide for itself on a case-by-case basis. If, in addition to that, abortion is allowed for cases of rape and incest – I’m not happy about that, but I would take that situation in a heartbeat over the current situation. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/36 "2018-06-30T00:47:10Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > Cite? I am honestly not sure there could be a cite for this. You’d need an alternate universe to see how things can work differently. We can postulate till the cows come home different circumstances where a woman has fewer babies, the same number of babies or more babies with or without abortion. I have seen abortion referred to as a [black genocide](https://www.politicalresearch.org/2010/04/29/abortion-as-black-genocide-an-old-scare-tactic-re-emerges/). I cannot see it remotely being a “genocide”. Are there fewer children because abortion exists? Maybe but whichever way it goes I think it a small enough difference to not make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/37 "2018-06-30T02:04:59Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am honestly not sure there could be a cite for this. You’d need an alternate universe to see how things can work differently. We can postulate till the cows come home different circumstances where a woman has fewer babies, the same number of babies or more babies with or without abortion. > > I have seen abortion referred to as a [black genocide](https://www.politicalresearch.org/2010/04/29/abortion-as-black-genocide-an-old-scare-tactic-re-emerges/). I cannot see it remotely being a “genocide”. > > Are there fewer children because abortion exists? Maybe but whichever way it goes I think it a small enough difference to not make a difference. There are 37 million black Americans. There have been roughly 19 million black abortions since 1973. In 2016 as an example, there were roughly 550 thousand black births and 300 thousand black abortions. I’m not sure that these are small differences. They’re pretty large differences if you ask me. When over 1/3 of potential black babies are terminated, you can’t pretend that’s insignificant or beneath notice. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/38 "2018-06-30T02:19:18Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > There are 37 million black Americans. There have been roughly 19 million black abortions since 1973. In 2016 as an example, there were roughly 550 thousand black births and 300 thousand black abortions. I’m not sure that these are small differences. They’re pretty large differences if you ask me. When over 1/3 of potential black babies are terminated, you can’t pretend that’s insignificant or beneath notice. I think the point is that this may be attributed to a certain demographic not properly using birth control, yet still only wanting a certain number of children. If a woman only wants two children, it doesn’t matter if she has two pregnancies and no abortions, or twenty pregnancies and eighteen abortions. The absolute number of abortions don’t necessarily correlate with a decreased population. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/39 "2018-06-30T03:28:03Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > a certain demographic Black people or poor people? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013/40 "2018-06-30T04:07:16Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > If a woman only wants two children, it doesn’t matter if she has two pregnancies and no abortions, or twenty pregnancies and eighteen abortions. The absolute number of abortions don’t necessarily correlate with a decreased population. Exactly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-pro-lifers-make-exceptions-for-rape-and-incest/817013.md?page=3)