Yes there’s no doubt that if there was a firing squad waiting for the murderer as he leaves the courtroom, presumably through a special door, it would be much cheaper for all involved.
Interesting; that’s quite a strategy.
Man I sure wish we had a like button.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say with that so I will just note that it wasn’t I who brought up the cost-savings perspective. My point in response to it, though, was that the death penalty is not inherently expensive whereas life imprisonment is.
Anything that is expensive can be made less expensive if you remove the things that cost all the money. That is an indisputable fact, for sure.
A fact which in no way alters the reality that the death penalty is more costly by far than LWOP. Inherently. Because all the things that drive up the cost of the death penalty are inherent in having the death penalty in the United States of America, with our whole constitution thing.
Yes, this is true. The death penalty process has many levels of appeal that take years and are very expensive. Eliminate all the appeals, and you eliminate most of the cost. Then the death penalty really would be cheaper.
Of course, you would also execute a lot of innocent people, but what do they matter. As long as you save a few cents on your tax bill, that’s what’s really important.
Also, apart from the ones that were 100% innocent, there are many who actually committed 2nd degree murder. With a lot of appeals appeals the death sentence for these people gets overturned, and reduced to a prison sentence. Remove the appeals, they would die wrongfully, but at least you’d save money.
I don’t think prosecutors generally do push for the death penalty. As I understand it, death sentences are distributed very unevenly, even within death penalty states, and even when you account for differing murder rates.
I hope so. I disagree in the DP in a big way, but if people are going to push for it, I would want them to be doing so because they firmly believe it is the right thing, not because they are after votes or trying to get a more favorable jury.
As mentioned before, one definition of chutzpah is killing your parents and then asking the judge for mercy because you are an orphan.
Another is stalling an execution for decades with appeals that have no other purpose than delay, and then claming the DP is inherently more expensive.
Regards,
Shodan
There is a very long and expensive appeal process for death penalty cases.
Sure, let’s just kill them all and save money. He’ll, skip the cost of the trial as well.
The prosecutor is an elected official, and as such he is supposed to uphold the will of the people. If the people in his constituency support the death penalty, then he should honor their wishes. And as others have mentioned, it is an unsupported assumption to believe the prosecutor himself does not support the death penalty, he may in fact support it very much.
Americans in general tend to favor the notion that the legal system should be punitive rather than rehabilitative. It’s a trend that has held over the last 50 years or so and is only now beginning to abate. The warehousing model, mandatory sentencing, and solitary confinement are all the product of the belief we should be “tough on crime.” This was partly a response to epidemic of cheap drugs, and partly fueled by the public perception that the legal system was weak and/or that sleazy lawyers routinely helped their clients escape justice owing to “technicalities” or flaws in the legal system. Furthermore, Americans often buy into the fundamental attribution error and the rational theory of crime. That is to say, a criminal is a person who chooses to be evil and they are evil at the very core of their soul. People who buy into this perception are unlikely to believe criminals deserve rehabilitation or that rehabilitation is even possible. People who make this argument often point to recidivism rates as evidence that criminals are inherently irredeemable.
This is not to say that those perceptions were true or false… I’m just pointing out that these are widespread beliefs.
As for personal opinions on the issue, there are some astonishingly evil human beings in this world for whom life imprisonment is not sufficient punishment. Lawrence Bittaker, Roy Norris, Jeffery Dahmer, Jared Lee Loughner, James Eagan Holmes, Anders Breivik… These are all examples of criminals whose crimes were beyond the pale and whose guilt was unquestionable. I would happily put any of these men to death. Further, I believe claims about expense and inefficiency are idiotic. A 9mm bullet costs about 29 cents at Cabela’s. Therefore, the cost of an execution should be 29 cents plus the cost of removing the body.
And before anyone questions me on the subject: Yes, I would happily shoot any of the aforementioned criminals in the face, any day of the week, without a moment’s hesitation, because I really, truly, and deeply believe that some people on this planet just deserve to die.
No, we only need to skip those appeals which have no purpose except to delay, and increase costs.
Regards,
Shodan
No such thing.
I don’t know about prosecutors sharing the belief, but the breakdown by state is interesting. Looking at executions since 1976, when the appeals process was beefed up after the moratorium was lifted, three states performed over half the executions in the entire country, and Texas alone performed 37% of them. 11 states have performed three or fewer; 19 states and DC have no death penalty, while two states (New York and California) have no means of execution, even though the DP is permitted, and the states have death rows. Nine states abolished the DP before the government did, and never reinstated it when the moratorium was lifted. So, clearly, there is quite a lot of feeling against it. I’m not even sure it’s really fair to describe the US as a “death penalty” country. Yes, the constitution permits is, but there’s not a national consensus anymore than there is a national standard for high school graduation.
In fact, I’m not sure the OP’s thesis is valid.
Actually, often, right after an execution, there are spates of copycat crimes.
This has already been covered, but just to repeat, No.
Hey, it works for the anti-abortionists; put up enough stumbling blocks, and eventually the death row inmates die of old age.
Seriously, death row is unproductive. Inmates in the general population (and most of the special pop, just under special conditions) work. Some of them do work within the prison that cuts down on expenses, like doing all the food prep, and much of the clerical and janitorial work. Some do outsourced work, and some do hard labor outside the prison. The money they make goes partly to them and partly to a victims’ restoration fund, in most cases, and if they have children, the money that goes to them gets tapped for child support.
Death row inmates sit in their cells 23 hours a day. They get an hour outside, or in a gym for exercise, always alone-- or maybe with other death row inmates, but not with the general population.
So that’s another way death row is costly. It costs more to keep someone on death row than to keep the same person in another part of the prison, and if the person has children, the children get no support from them, because they have no chance to earn anything. The state ends up paying for AFDC, school meals, housing assistance, etc., for their children. OK: prisoners don’t earn riches, but every little bit helps. And in-house work to keep prison costs down can’t be overstated.
I’ll bite: which ones are those?
And we’ll use what? a Magic 8-ball to figure out which ones those are? Please give me an example, either hypothetical, or (preferably) from a real case, where it was obvious that a genuine appeal (in other words, not the appeals version of the Chewbacca defense, which a judge can spot across the room, and deny without a hearing), that clearly had no purpose other than to delay, and could have been dismissed without being overruled later, and coming back to bite the judge who dismissed it.
FWIW, I just read a couple of books on the WM3, and some motions are made to buy time, but the time is needed because something else is in the works that has a real possibility of getting a conviction overturned; due to some circumstance, like a delay at a DNA lab, the “jackpot” appeal needs an extension of its deadline, and so the motion that is filed that has little hope of going through is made because as long as it is pending, the deadline for the appeal gets automatically extended.
If it were possible to say “The DNA lab where we sent the sample had a centrifuge breakdown, and we can’t get out results as soon as expected, so we need an extension,” and expect to get it, the time-buying motion result wouldn’t be necessary, but it isn’t likely to happen, so the motion that automatically buys time is the strategy the defense uses.
They also kill, both prison guards and other inmates. I can give you a list with names if you like. Considering what a small percentage of the general population they are, capital murderers sentenced to life (or as we call it in the business, a “minicap”) commit an inordinate number of violent crimes, particularly murders, in prison.
As to the OP: Some crimes are worse than all other crimes, and they deserve a punishment that’s worse than all other punishments.
And we could even bill the family for the bullet.
Reminds me of something I read once that a army deserter is the worst criminal, because at the time the punishment for desertion was a swift hanging, so they felt no hesitation committing any crime. Same with a person with life or even a very long sentence.