# Why do restaurants make you reuse your flatware from one part of th meal to the next? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 1, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958 "2005-11-01T20:02:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/41 "2005-11-02T18:40:29Z")
> [@](#): > > [i/]Originally Posted by even sven\* > Nobody would ever dream of switching forks between courses in their own home. I do, if I eat dinner in courses. I certainly use a salad fork for salad and then switch to a dinner fork for the main dish, even if I’m actually eating them all at once. And the thought of using my mashed-potato-residued fork for dessert is just gross. I don’t know where you guys go but most places I go (aside from very-low-end ethnic or el-cheapo places) do provide fresh silverware. If they don’t, I might use the old stuff or might request new utensils if the used ones are crusty or gravy-covered. The other option is to stick the knife in my mouth and lick it off. I prefer not to do that. Good waitstaff at good-to-better restaurants (Outback and above) should replace your silverware. You shouldn’t need to ask; they should just do it. If **you** don’t care, then you can tell them they needn’t bother. They’ll be glad to get out of the trip. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/42 "2005-11-02T19:52:04Z")
> [@ExtraKun](#): > > Chinese restaurants, AFAIK (in Singapore), do not change chopsticks or spoon with each ‘course’ (Assuming that the dinner has courses, like a wedding banquet. Usually, they just serve everything you have ordered in one go, and then you help yourself). During multiple-course banquets they usually give you a new soup spoon for a soup or dessert dish. Yes, but that’s not the point I was arguing. The point I was arguing was about cutlery, and getting Western style eating implements in a Chinese or Indian restaurant, despite Western cutlery not being the norm in neither China nor India. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/43 "2005-11-02T20:22:37Z")
Checking back today, I see that several veterans of the working side of a restaurant have posted here, and I think I can consider my question more or less answered. As **devilsknew** succinctly put it, “silverware wrangling is a PITA,” which **Barbarian** , **Alan Smithee** , and **Spezza** had also mentioned. The more of a PITA it is to deal with the drying and sorting, the more time it spends away from being in use. The more time it spends away from use, the more settings of flatware in the restaurant’s possession that it takes to support a fixed number of settings in use. The other thing is the tendency of flatware to disappear, something that **Alan Smithee** and **devilsknew** had a lot to say about: > [@Alan Smithee](#): > > Also, flatware, like socks in the dryer, disappears at a surprising rate in a resturaunt. We reordered it constantly and were often short, even soon after restocking. Some of it gets dumped in the trash by mistake while servers and bussers are emptying used plates; some of it gets dropped and kicked behind the bench of a booth; the rest of it–who knows? Maybe customers or servers take it home with them. ( ) Maybe the dishwasher contains a small wormhole leading to a small, slightly magnetic pocket universe slowly filling with lost resturaunt silverware. Either way, I know our manager frequently complained about the very high cost of keeping the place in spoons and forks. > [@devilsknew](#): > > I knew several waiters who had complete sets of silver and plates that looked surprisingly similar to the Restaurant’s settings. > > I often ended up with forgotten silverware in my apron, only to be discovered at home when I was doing the wash. Usually, I’d take it back but some of it ended up in my drawer. So it seems that a in typical restaurant, a lot of the flatware at any time is waitiing to be dried and sorted, and the restaurant has a hard time keeping a big enough excess quantity of flatware on hand because it keeps disappearing in various ways. So whether or not it’s something that restaurant owners stay up nights thinking about, I can see why it would add to the nuisance level of dealing with the flatware for their waitstaff to replace that fork, rather than leave it, between the appetizer and the entree. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/44 "2005-11-02T20:42:14Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > Yes, but that’s not the point I was arguing. The point I was arguing was about cutlery, and getting Western style eating implements in a Chinese or Indian restaurant, despite Western cutlery not being the norm in neither China nor India. I never said it was absurd to get cutlery. But it is absurd to expect a very specific and rather rare presentation of cutlery that isn’t the norm for the country where the food is being eaten (America) much less the country whose food is being presented (most places). Although I probably expect food to be served in an order that reflects an American meal (most countries don’t do a traditional right-after-dinner dessert, for example), I don’t expect my Thai Iced Tea in a silver tea service. I don’t expect a cheese course after my Ethiopian meal. There isn’t even a “proper” formal form for many Indian meals. Eight different spoons for each dish in the thali? How do you arrange them? In a circle around the plate? One big long line of spoons? An ethnic meal isn’t going to have the exact same kind of service as a four-star French restraunt. Deal. For all those ooged out by the tablecloth…uhhh…thats where your cutlery starts out in the first place in a proper pre-set multicourse table. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/45 "2005-11-02T21:04:40Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > For all those ooged out by the tablecloth…uhhh…thats where your cutlery starts out in the first place in a proper pre-set multicourse table. I’m not ‘ooged out’ by a clean, dry fork resting on the tablecloth. I feel safe in assuming that when I pick up that fork, that fork is all I’m getting. I do get a bit grossed out, however, by the thought of resting a fork on the tablecloth that has a thin coating of sauces, my saliva, etc. on it, that will make it much easier to pick up any crumbs, lint, etc. that it comes into contact with - and then putting that fork back in my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/46 "2005-11-02T21:18:46Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’m not ‘ooged out’ by a clean, dry fork resting on the tablecloth. I feel safe in assuming that when I pick up that fork, that fork is all I’m getting. > > I do get a bit grossed out, however, by the thought of resting a fork on the tablecloth that has a thin coating of sauces, my saliva, etc. on it, that will make it much easier to pick up any crumbs, lint, etc. that it comes into contact with - and then putting that fork back in my mouth. Your obsessive fear of germs and “contamination” makes you think requesting or demanding multiple silverware sets is a reasonable thing to do. It’s not. Your chances of getting a bug because you kept one silver wear set throughout the meal vs cycling sets is infinitesimal. Multiple silver wear change-ups are a largely pointless affectation the US has mostly outgrown. You are hanging on to it because you’ve got hygiene issues. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/47 "2005-11-02T22:15:38Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > I never said it was absurd to get cutlery. But it is absurd to expect a very specific and rather rare presentation of cutlery that isn’t the norm for the country where the food is being eaten (America) much less the country whose food is being presented (most places). That may have been your intention, however, from your post, it came across as you wouldn’t even expect to get cutlery in an Indian restaurant. See, where you said (bolding mine): > [@even sven](#): > > For example, in an Indian restraunt **you can consider yourself lucky to even be getting silverware** - the owners would likely eat the same meal without any. Why would you expect them to provide old fashioned French service on top of that? To me, that says that you think that one shouldn’t even expect cutlery in an Indian restaurant. Its a patronising attitude if nothing else. Besides, there’s a lot more to silver service than simply a change of knives and forks after each course. > [@even sven](#): > > There isn’t even a “proper” formal form for many Indian meals. And I presume that for your next trick you are going to teach the Pope the tenents of Catholicism? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/48 "2005-11-02T23:24:50Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I do get a bit grossed out, however, by the thought of resting a fork on the tablecloth that has a thin coating of sauces, my saliva, etc. on it, that will make it much easier to pick up any crumbs, lint, etc. that it comes into contact with - and then putting that fork back in my mouth. Heh. I’ve noticed that more and more restaurants, especially mid-range and above, are now putting down butcher paper (which they change with every new seating) over the tablecloth. Also rapidly disappearing from the restaurant, is the guy who scrapes the crumbs off the table between dinner and dessert. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/49 "2005-11-02T23:44:13Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > And I presume that for your next trick you are going to teach the Pope the tenents of Catholicism? Dude, **Angua** , chill. If there is a proper Emily Post style western tableware place setting for your standard Indian dinner served in an American restaurant, please let me know about it and I’ll shut up. As far as I know, the standard French inspired “four forks, two spoons, two knifes” thing isn’t really appropriate for, say, a thali. So instead of using an inappropriate table form, or using the traditional form, which obviously all parties involved are aware enough to know would be unsuitable in this setting, most Indian restaurants in America do the most reasonable thing and give you the standard American table setting which is one knife, one fork, and one spoon, serving spoons for shared dishes and specialized silverware (steak knife, tall spoon for mixing tall drinks, demitasse spoon for coffee/tea) as needed. You can continue to misinterpret what I’m saying into some kind of slight about Indians, but I assure you that I’m actually not talking out of my ass here and I have nothing but respect for our subcontinental brothers and sisters and their tableware habits. Hell, the only time I’ve dined at a restaurant that used real silver silverware was in India. I’m not an idiot, theek hai? Furthermore, I wasn’t even trying to make a point about Indians. I couldn’t care less. Most ethnic restaurants around here are run by recent immigrants from South East Asia or Mexico/Central America that came here because they were fucking poor and yeah, chances are that Pablo the guy who runs the taqueria has never spent much time in a restaurant that uses a traditional multi-course tableware setting. And chances are it wouldn’t occur to him to use that form to serve a meal he’s used to eating in some other way entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Nimue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d26b3c/32.png) [@Nimue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nimue)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/50 "2005-11-03T01:22:40Z")
This is one of my British husband’s biggest peeves about living in the US (that, and the healthcare situation, and lawyers). I mentioned this thread to him and he said that at the expatriate forums he frequents, this very topic frequently comes up, with people invariably deciding how uncultured Americans are. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/51 "2005-11-03T02:28:03Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Your obsessive fear of germs and “contamination” makes you think requesting or demanding multiple silverware sets is a reasonable thing to do. It’s not. Gotta say, of all the responses so far, this is the most bizarre. Which galaxy did you say you were posting from? Seriously: 1. “requesting or demanding multiple silverware sets” is not “a reasonable thing to do” First, let’s strip the “requesting or demanding multiple silverware sets” of its bullshit. I’m talking, for the most part, about requesting a fresh fork for my entree if I’ve used it to eat my appetizer. I guess there’s some alternate universe where that’s “not reasonable” but it ain’t this one. 1. > [@](#): > > Your chances of getting a bug because you kept one silver wear set throughout the meal vs cycling sets is infinitesimal. “Bug”?? > [@](#): > > You are hanging on to it because you’ve got hygiene issues. “Hygiene issues”?? I mean, where do you _get_ this stuff?? This isn’t a _hygiene issue_ for me. I’m not worried about bacteria or viruses. You are _making shit up_. I just don’t like the idea of putting a fork in my mouth that’s got lint and who knows what on it. I find that detracts from a pleasant dining experience. I realize that apparently means I’m some sort of freak, but that’s OK. That’s the sort of freak I am, and I won’t apologize for it. Just don’t turn me into some _other_ kind of freak, just because it suits you to do so. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/52 "2005-11-03T02:32:21Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Heh. I’ve noticed that more and more restaurants, especially mid-range and above, are now putting down butcher paper (which they change with every new seating) over the tablecloth. Hmmm. This hasn’t made it to any restaurant I patronize, but that’s not to say it won’t sometime soon. > [@](#): > > Also rapidly disappearing from the restaurant, is the guy who scrapes the crumbs off the table between dinner and dessert. Gotta say, I’ve seen this 35 years ago, and I saw it just the other night too, but it’s always been at upscale places; it’s never really (IME, at least) worked its way down to more midrange restaurants. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/53 "2005-11-03T03:59:05Z")
Yea, you guys want to know what cultured means? Culture means folding literally hundreds of these [wunnerful little fans](http://interiordec.about.com/cs/napkinfolding/l/blnapkfold008.htm) every night for somebody to feel like little Lord Fauntleroy. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/54 "2005-11-03T04:25:33Z")
…but then again… culture is also tasting some of the finest wines, sampling full snifters of Louis the XIII, toasting with Dom, and an occasional Drambuie in my coffeebreak, all for the sake of indoctrination on the company’s dime. I learned quite a bit of culture… I unfortunately am a bit simpler, roguish brute that I am. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/55 "2005-11-03T05:36:25Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > …but then again… culture is also tasting some of the finest wines, sampling full snifters of Louis the XIII, toasting with Dom, and an occasional Drambuie in my coffeebreak, all for the sake of indoctrination on the company’s dime. Just so there is no misunderstanding, the indoctrination was in the form of wine, brandy, and aperitif tastings truly sponsored and required by the Restaurant. This wasn’t pilfering, except for the coffee spike… that truly was an unaccounted fringe benefit (shhhhhh!). We were also often left importunely with not entirely discharged bottles of Pouillefouisse (Fussypussy) or some other wine. This is the gray area of serving…we’d usually divy up the booty whilst folding those fan napkins 😃 . Wine to silence the whine of overworked waiters. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/56 "2005-11-03T05:58:17Z")
And for the retentive, it is “importunately” and " Pouilly-Fuisse". Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/57 "2005-11-03T07:45:13Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Dude, **Angua** , chill. If there is a proper Emily Post style western tableware place setting for your standard Indian dinner served in an American restaurant, please let me know about it and I’ll shut up. I’m not saying that there is. Not that I’ve been to an Indian restarurant in America, but I have been to many in the UK, and I know what you get, cutlery wise. It may be a generic UK vs US difference (as others here have said) in that whilst one doesn’t get full French service at an Indian restaurant in the UK, one will get new cutlery, if say one is at a curry place, and one has ordered a starters and a main course, with the main courses having shared serving spoons as you say. P.S. In case you hadn’t realised it, I’m British Indian. Hence your exposition on traditional Indian meals, and the mismatch between Western and Indian styles of dining is a touch wasted on me. Oh, and I’m not a dude. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eada6e/32.png) [@Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_You_Big_Red_Fire_Engine)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/58 "2005-11-03T12:57:45Z")
Replacing the cutlery? That adds at least another 2 trips to your table fot the waitperson. I replace the cutlery only if they sit it on their plate\*. But replacing everyone’s cutlery? Hell no. As a waitress in my restaurant I don’t have the time. I’m sorry, but someone else’s drinks orders are more important than you getting fresh cutlery. And it wouldn’t just be a 20% increase in cutlery (if you’re replacing it after entree’s). It would be double. And that it a FUCKLOAD of cutlery. It takes me an hour to scrub, clean, separate and polish the cutlery as it is. Maybe it’s just that here (Australia), the boss employs a lot less waitresses per table than over there. After all, he does pay me a lot more than I would be getting over there. \*I do not like the fucking idiots who spend 10 seconds balancing their cutlery in such a position that OF COURSE it is going to fall off when I try and pick it up. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/59 "2005-11-03T17:40:17Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Hmmm. This hasn’t made it to any restaurant I patronize, but that’s not to say it won’t sometime soon. Curious. Mebbe it’s more of a regional thing. I’m seeing it in the Chicago area. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958/60 "2005-11-03T18:05:41Z")
> [@Go You Big Red Fire Engine](#): > > Replacing the cutlery? That adds at least another 2 trips to your table fot the waitperson. I replace the cutlery only if they sit it on their plate\*. But replacing everyone’s cutlery? Hell no. As a waitress in my restaurant I don’t have the time. I’m sorry, but someone else’s drinks orders are more important than you getting fresh cutlery. > And it wouldn’t just be a 20% increase in cutlery (if you’re replacing it after entree’s). It would be double. And that it a FUCKLOAD of cutlery. It takes me an hour to scrub, clean, separate and polish the cutlery as it is. Good Lord, can we all talk about the same thing?? If we’ve got an apples/oranges mismatch going on here, it’s no wonder we can’t agree on what sort of juice we’ll get. “I replace the cutlery only if they sit it on their plate” will suffice quite well, at least for the purposes of the OP. Replacing all everyone’s cutlery between the appetizer and the entree? No, I’m not talking about that, and AFAICT, the only people who _are_, are those who are ridiculing the whole idea. So let’s call it a strawman, and burn it. The one thing I don’t understand is how replacing the cutlery that someone leaves on their appetizer plate adds two trips to their table. You’re clearing the appetizer plates anyway, so it doesn’t take an extra trip to clear the dirty flatware that’s on those plates. Then later you’re bringing the entrees to the table, so hypothetically you can bring the replacements then for what you removed earlier. But I’ll allow for the reality that bringing the entrees can often be a juggling act already, so let’s add one trip, about as often as not, for replacing the cutlery you removed with the appetizer dishes. So an average of +0.5 trips, say. Min of zero, max of one, in any particular instance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-restaurants-make-you-reuse-your-flatware-from-one-part-of-th-meal-to-the-next/328958.md?page=4)