# Why do right-wingers keep talking about the "Cloward-Piven Strategy"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 18, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519 "2009-09-18T00:48:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/1 "2009-09-18T00:48:52Z")
Not here, but on some other boards I keep seeing it brought up, and somehow attributed to Obama or the Dems. [Cloward-Piven Strategy:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward-Piven_Strategy) > [@](#): > > The Cloward-Piven strategy refers to a political strategy outlined by Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven, then both sociologists and political activists at the Columbia University School of Social Work, in a 1966 article in The Nation. The two argued that many Americans who were eligible for welfare were not receiving benefits, and that a welfare enrollment drive would create a political crisis that would force U.S. politicians, particularly the Democratic Party, to enact legislation “establishing a guaranteed national income.” Which might have seemed clever to radicals in 1966, but it has never been tried in real life, in America or anywhere else. American welfare rolls did, in the 1970s, sometimes get rather swollen – but only because of sheer economic distress, not any political strategy or “welfare enrollment drive”; and the political reaction was not to “establish a guaranteed national income” but to vote Reagan into power. Anyway, what’s that got to do with the Obama Admin, or anything that’s happening now? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/2 "2009-09-18T03:52:21Z")
Um, nothing? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/3 "2009-09-18T04:01:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not here, but on some other boards I keep seeing it brought up, and somehow attributed to Obama or the Dems. > > … > > Anyway, what’s that got to do with the Obama Admin, or anything that’s happening now? 😕 Why do they keep talking about it? Because Glenn Beck wants them to: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-uKNYrJUek](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-uKNYrJUek) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/4 "2009-09-18T04:21:12Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Why do they keep talking about it? Because Glenn Beck wants them to: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-uKNYrJUek](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-uKNYrJUek) Oh . . . . . . . “Where have we heard that before?” [ACORN logo] . . . Does _Guiness’ BOWR_ have a category for “Most Incredibly Fatuous Nonsequitur”? ---
**Author:** ![the\_first\_supraliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@the\_first\_supraliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_first_supraliminal)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/5 "2009-09-18T14:23:05Z")
I think we DO guarantee everyone food and shelter. I don’t know anywhere in the US or any developed nation, where people starving on the street are just left to die. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/6 "2009-09-18T21:03:30Z")
> [@the\_first\_supraliminal](#): > > I think we DO guarantee everyone food and shelter. I don’t know anywhere in the US or any developed nation, where people starving on the street are just left to die. What’s that got to do with this? ---
**Author:** ![dudemanjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@dudemanjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dudemanjack)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/7 "2009-09-18T21:09:21Z")
> [@the\_first\_supraliminal](#): > > I think we DO guarantee everyone food and shelter. I don’t know anywhere in the US or any developed nation, where people starving on the street are just left to die. All homeless people are guaranteed food and shelter in the U.S.? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/8 "2009-09-18T21:23:45Z")
> [@dudemanjack](#): > > All homeless people are guaranteed food and shelter in the U.S.? Nope. For legal residents, food, yes (assuming the prospective recipients of food stamps can produce adequate documentation). Shelter, I can guarantee not – we were a few hours from being in precisely that circumstance, by act of God. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/9 "2009-09-19T03:03:14Z")
Damn. I never heard of this fiendish strategy before. I must have missed a monthly newsletter or something. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/10 "2009-09-19T03:55:12Z")
> [@](#): > > **dudemanjack** : I think we DO guarantee everyone food and shelter. I don’t know anywhere in the US or any developed nation, where people starving on the street are just left to die. Have you been feeding them? I haven’t been feeding them. Just today I heard someone mention Second Harvest Food Bank and how they were running low for a while. I don’t know if they’re still running low. Yes, people are left to die in the streets here. Do they starve or just go hungry? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/11 "2009-09-19T06:12:13Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Damn. I never heard of this fiendish strategy before. I must have missed a monthly newsletter or something. I don’t know. I’ve been getting regular e-mail from the GOP since last summer (I don’t know why, I didn’t sign up for it.) and they’ve failed to mention it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/12 "2009-09-19T06:54:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why do right-wingers keep talking about the “Cloward-Piven Strategy”? Listening to too much Classic Rock and they think the past 40+ years don’t exist? It’s a rather extreme form of conservatism, but not unheard-of. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/13 "2009-09-19T07:16:27Z")
What I find interesting is that the libertarian idea of a negative income tax (which I favor) is this exactly. Well, not this strategy, but a minimum income. The more conventional approach might be housing, food, & medical allowances. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/14 "2009-09-19T08:33:43Z")
Right-wingers “keep” talking about this? Funny, I’ve never heard anybody talk about this. In fact, I’ve never heard of this in my entire life. This with a degree in Political Science, no less. Clearly, this is one of the most important topics of our day, though, else you would not have brought it up, so please allow me some time to get up to speed and put my ear to the ground so I don’t continue to miss what they “keep” talking about. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/15 "2009-09-19T11:37:16Z")
This is a new one on me also. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/16 "2009-09-19T12:41:21Z")
Our local paper has a People’s Politics forum and [Cloward-Piven](http://noise.typepad.com/peoples_politics/2009/07/clowardpivennow-it-makes-sense.html) was brought up for discussion way back in July. Not that it made a whit of sense, but the Reich-wing whack jobs were onto as far back as then. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/17 "2009-09-19T15:26:05Z")
Well, I dunno, this sounds more like the followers of some oddball-fringe theory trying to see if they can use the messageboard/blog community to gain some traction. The oddball fringe theory being that the Cloward-Priven Strategy is really about to be sprung onto us now. We’re going to see all sorts of claims that one or another long-feared leftist strategy is about to strike. I wouldn’t be surprised if next week there’s a rumor that Obama’s going to make Puerto Rico a state to get the extra votes. Interesting theory, though, from the original professors: that once the welfare-enrolled poor reached large enough numbers, that would force the government to adopt socialistic policies for the whole of the population? As Barney Frank would say, what planet did they spend most of their time in? Couldn’t they imagine that the answer from the government would be to cut back on the welfare benefits? ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/18 "2009-09-19T18:18:11Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Have you been feeding them? I haven’t been feeding them. Ah, shit. Whose turn is it to feed the homeless? I totally did it yesterday, come on guys. And fill up the water dish while you’re at it! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/19 "2009-09-19T18:29:42Z")
> [@runcible\_spoon](#): > > Ah, shit. Whose turn is it to feed the homeless? I totally did it yesterday, come on guys. And fill up the water dish while you’re at it! Sweetie, we’ve decided to send the homeless to a nice farm upstate. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519/20 "2009-09-19T18:39:28Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Damn. I never heard of this fiendish strategy before. I must have missed a monthly newsletter or something. Like I said, “other boards” – specifically Free Republic, and the General Board of [Literotica.com](http://Literotica.com) – with frequent references therein to Glenn Beck (whom I don’t watch). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-right-wingers-keep-talking-about-the-cloward-piven-strategy/510519.md?page=2)