# Why do r's or r-sounds get pronounded in words where they don't belong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 25, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043 "2004-02-25T04:35:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/1 "2004-02-25T04:35:46Z")
I’ve wondered about this for years – every time I hear Larry King pronounce a name like Donna as Donner, or a good friend of mine, who I’ve razzed several times for doing so, pronounces the word “wash” as “warsh.” Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/2 "2004-02-25T04:41:12Z")
…and why they hell did I spell that “pronounded?” Jeez!!! (Oh, I see…the “d” is right above the “c” on the keyboard. Easy mistake. Anyone could do it. Right??) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/3 "2004-02-25T04:59:11Z")
New England has a major R-imbalance problem. The people from Boston keep leaving them out, so the folks in Maine put them back in. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/4 "2004-02-25T05:22:56Z")
When I was studying in Italy, I had an art history professor who spoke fluent Italian, but with a Bostonian accent. Normally, Italians are very un-snooty about their language…they’re thrilled when foreigners are interested in learning to speak it. But even they would cringe to hear the way she pronounced things. Piazzer. Basillicer. Italier. ::shudder:: ---
**Author:** ![sundog66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@sundog66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sundog66)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/5 "2004-02-25T05:52:49Z")
It’s called rhotacism. r-insertion is a natural process. It happens to have perhaps a negative connotation in English because it’s specific to certain non-prestigious regions. But that’s just the way things went down here. In the Mandarin Chinese of Beijing, however, it’s the “in” thing to do! Saying “huar” instead of “hua” for “flower”, for example, makes you sound more sophisticated. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_griffin-kentzel/32/14787_2.png) [@Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Griffin-Kentzel)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/6 "2004-02-25T06:25:17Z")
Since this is a linguistics question with a factual answer, I’ll move it to [**General Questions**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=3) for you. **Cajun Man** for the SDMB ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/7 "2004-02-25T07:42:28Z")
> [@Cajun Man](#): > > Since this is a linguistics question with a factual answer, I’ll move it to [**General Questions**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=3) for you. > > **Cajun Man** > for the SDMB Thank you, Cajun Man. I debated the best location for this thread. I should have gone with my first impulse. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/8 "2004-02-25T08:37:44Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > New England has a major R-imbalance problem. The people from Boston keep leaving them out, so the folks in Maine put them back in. I have to do it. So why did Gore carry both states in 200? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/9 "2004-02-25T08:38:51Z")
Goddammit, that’s 2000 :smack: ---
**Author:** ![substatique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@substatique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/substatique)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/10 "2004-02-25T08:46:48Z")
> [@](#): > > In the Mandarin Chinese of Beijing, however, it’s the “in” thing to do! Saying “huar” instead of “hua” for “flower”, for example, makes you sound more sophisticated. Could you elaborate, **sundog66**? I’m a beginning Mandarin student, and they tell me that adding an “r” to the end of a word changes the meaning. Specifically, it can indicate a location (identical to the apparently more widespread _li_) or a diminuitive. I’m not suggesting the two explanations are incompatible. I’m just curious about what you know. In my opinion, the word-final rhoticism characteristic of Bostonians probably comes from (RP) British English, where the final “r” is only pronounced if the next word begins with a vowel. (_This is my new caw (car)._ vs. _My new caw-r is blue._) An American pronounces the final “r” anyway, and some (i.e. Bostonians) might generalize that rule (or “difference from Britain”) to all vowel-final words. On the other hand, American English is descended not from modern British English, but from an older version. So the British “r”-dropping and the Bostonian “r”-adding might be contemporary processes. ---
**Author:** ![substatique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@substatique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/substatique)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/11 "2004-02-25T08:48:59Z")
Oh…or maybe it’s Bostonians who _don’t_ say “r” at all. I’m afraid my western Canadian education taught me very little about eastern American accents. Pretend I said something intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/12 "2004-02-25T08:54:59Z")
Thanks to everyone for some very interesting explanations. However, with regard to the Mass./Maine aspect of the answers, perhaps I should point out that Larry King (just as an example) is from Brooklyn and the guy who says “warsh” for wash is in Oklahoma. As an aside, I remember years ago a British singer whose name I can’t recall did a remake of the early 60’s song, “Donna.” Listening to him sing “Oh, Donner…oh, Donner…” drove me crazy! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/13 "2004-02-25T12:47:59Z")
> [@substatique](#): > > Oh…or maybe it’s Bostonians who _don’t_ say “r” at all. Except JFK, who always said, “Cuber” with regards to the missile crisis, and “idear” when a thought occurred to him. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/14 "2004-02-25T13:57:05Z")
> [@](#): > > New England has a major R-imbalance problem. The people from Boston keep leaving them out, so the folks in Maine put them back in. That’s not true – Massachusetts has a perfect Balance of Trade in **R** s – they leave them out of a lot of words (“Hahvahd Yahd”), but then they stick them at the end of other words (“pizzer” – Pizza, that is – “sawr” – the past tense of “see”) It’s not just Kennedy with “Cuber”. They never put an “r” on the end of the “saw” that cuts wood, by the way, only the past tense of “see”. So maybe it serves a purpose. The broad Boston “a”, by the way, isn’t pronounced “ah”, as when the doctor looks at your throat. It’s more of a broadened “flat” a, pronounced in the front of the throat, not the back. So the name “Mark” becomes more like “Maaak” than like “Mahk”. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/15 "2004-02-25T14:11:50Z")
Apparently it’s a feature of some British accents as well (even when the following word doesn’t begin with a vowel). I’ve heard the Beatles do it: in “Till There Was You,” Paul sings > [@](#): > > There were birds in the sky > But I never **sawr** them winging > No I never **sawr** them at all… ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/16 "2004-02-25T16:03:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _substatique wrote:_ > In my opinion, the word-final rhoticism characteristic of Bostonians probably comes from (RP) British English, where the final “r” is only pronounced if the next word begins with a vowel. (This is my new caw (car). vs. My new caw-r is blue.) An American pronounces the final “r” anyway, and some (i.e. Bostonians) might generalize that rule (or “difference from Britain”) to all vowel-final words. On the other hand, American English is descended not from modern British English, but from an older version. So the British “r”-dropping and the Bostonian “r”-adding might be contemporary processes. The British also may add an r sound at the end of a word that doesn’t have an r, if it’s followed by a vowel sound, just like Bostonians do. “Asiar and America.” In fact, I was having a conversation like this with a Briton and another American, and the Briton denied he did this. So I asked him to say “Asia and America,” and he said “Asiar and America.” I said “see?” But he emphatically denied putting an r sound there, which was so obvious to us Americans. I suspected that it gets down to how Britons and Americans define what an r sounds like. ---
**Author:** ![Myglaren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Myglaren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myglaren)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/17 "2004-02-25T17:39:02Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Thanks to everyone for some very interesting explanations. However, with regard to the Mass./Maine aspect of the answers, perhaps I should point out that Larry King (just as an example) is from Brooklyn and the guy who says “warsh” for wash is in Oklahoma. > > As an aside, I remember years ago a British singer whose name I can’t recall did a remake of the early 60’s song, “Donna.” Listening to him sing “Oh, Donner…oh, Donner…” drove me crazy! 🙂 That would be Donnervan. ---
**Author:** ![sundog66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@sundog66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sundog66)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/18 "2004-02-25T17:54:08Z")
> [@substatique](#): > > Could you elaborate, **sundog66**? I’m a beginning Mandarin student, and they tell me that adding an “r” to the end of a word changes the meaning. Specifically, it can indicate a location (identical to the apparently more widespread _li_) or a diminuitive. I’m not suggesting the two explanations are incompatible. I’m just curious about what you know. Yes, it does indicate location in that in turns “zhe” (this) and “na” (that) into the words for “here” and “there.” As for being a diminutive ending, this might be plausible, since the character (er) used to represent the rhatocism means “child,” but I’m pretty sure that today the diminutive impact has been lost (if there ever was one). Maybe there are a few fossilized examples, though. ---
**Author:** ![seaworthy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@seaworthy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seaworthy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/19 "2004-02-25T18:29:15Z")
My dad’s from New Jersey and he does the “warshing machine” and “warter” thing. Unfortunately now my neice is starting to do it too. Pretty soon she’ll start saying “dunky” and “turrible” like my mom (she’s from Philly). Somehow I managed not to get an accent at all (living here in Florida) which my friend from New York says is a bunch of crap, I have an accent I just can’t hear it. And I say, then why do all TV announcers and people in commercials (for the most part) talk like me? It means I have an “American” accent, not a Southern accent, or a New England accent, or whatever. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043/20 "2004-02-25T18:31:57Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > The British also may add an r sound at the end of a word… And then there was Paul McCartney in “Till There Was You:” “There were birds, in the sky, but I never sawr them winging…till there was you.” Absolutely ruined this song for me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-rs-or-r-sounds-get-pronounded-in-words-where-they-dont-belong/231043.md?page=2)