# Why do schools waste so much time teaching pointless stuff? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 17, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958 "2009-11-17T22:07:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/61 "2009-11-18T16:45:35Z")
> [@Mr.Krebbs](#): > > This is correct. Why the hell do the rest of you think children go to school for so goddamn long? Once one is taught to read, write and do simple arithmetic, there isn’t much else that one cannot learn on his own. > > School actually prepares kids to spend 40 hours a week or more at a soul-sucking career where the only compensation is the means to (maybe) afford food and shelter – things which should be basic human rights anyway, but I digress. Since I’ve had so much [del]brainwashing[/del] schooling, I’m just going to mindlessly accept what you and **Boyo Jim** say, rather than questioning it or thinking critically about it or doing any independent research to see whether it matches reality. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/62 "2009-11-18T16:55:47Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > If you’ve ever watched an episode of “Are you Smarter than a Fifth Grader,” you’ve probably come to realize the massive amount of pointless knowledge that are drilled into a kids education. Stuff like coniferous vs. deciduous trees. I must ask, is learning that kind of trivial information really beneficial to the kid later in life? Could this be why America sucks at producing children capable of real math and science (compared to other countries)? Specifically, the difference between coniferous and deciduous has changed a decision as to whether or not wind turbines will be placed near my property. Generally, America sucks when it comes to dealing with climate change. Climate change will have broad reaching negative effects that will affect what species live or die, what people go hungry, and what economies suffer and fail. Lack of environmental awareness is key to this. Garbage in, garbage out. The lower the level of education, the less the ability to make informed choices in a person’s own life, and when affecting others through voting. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Krebbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5fc32e/32.png) [@Mr.Krebbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Krebbs)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/63 "2009-11-18T17:07:14Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Since I’ve had so much [del]brainwashing[/del] schooling, I’m just going to mindlessly accept what you and **Boyo Jim** say, rather than questioning it or thinking critically about it or doing any independent research to see whether it matches reality. At the very least, you’re mindlessly accepting ideas that are not the status quo. Good for you, I guess? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/64 "2009-11-18T17:07:35Z")
> [@jasonh300](#): > > The problem I see is that kids are graduating from high school and are unable to read or write, or do basic math. These “three R’s” should be drilled in from Kindergarten through at least the third grade. If anything about science, or history or social studies is in there, it should be exercises in reading (you have to read about something, and if any of those things catch a kid’s interest then they can expand on that later). > > Once the kids can read, write and do basic math, then start teaching science and history. The kids can read, so they should be able to pick up a lot of information now. They could teach the basics of both in a year. > > Then going into the fifth grade, they could find out what the kids are interested in and let them take courses that stress science, or history, or literature or advanced math. > > By the time they graduate from high school, they should all be ready for college. > > And for God’s sake, teach 'em to type no later than the fifth grade. These days, there’s not much they’ll do in life that won’t involve using a keyboard. > > This wouldn’t change what kids are taught in K-12, it would just put it in a more logical order. As a college prof who regularly receives students (even native ones) who can barely manage a coherent sentence, I’m thinking it wouldn’t hurt to have all the kiddos in K-12 do some old-fashioned sentence diagramming. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/65 "2009-11-18T17:13:08Z")
Am I alone in being taught all this ‘unnecessary stuff’ yet still magically obtained the ability to read, write and count? ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/66 "2009-11-18T17:36:53Z")
I don’t know about anyone else but I use the trivial crap I learned in K-12 all the time. Determining how to translate inches into meters, knowing what plants in my environment are poisonous, understanding how global and national events impact my local community and vice versa, having knowledge of the various branches of government and what each is responsible for, and even art impact my day to day life. Enjoying LOTR is one thing. Having enough musical education and appreciation to see that a large part of Tolkien’s inspiration was Wagner’s Ring Cycle brings both works to a whole new level for their audiences. When I took the music unit in HS and we covered Jazz I didn’t have any clue that I would one day live in Harlem, but I must say that now that I do I am so appreciative of my musical education and how it helps me understand and feel connected to my community. Knowing the basics of astronomy helped me find my way home when I got lost driving in the boonies of Texas more than once. Understanding several of the basics of science enables me to be a better cook because I understand the importance of a “falling oven” or why a tsp of salt and a tbsp of salt shouldn’t be mixed up. Sure the coniferous tree thing hasn’t helped me yet but I bet if I give it enough time it will come in handy some day. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Krebbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5fc32e/32.png) [@Mr.Krebbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Krebbs)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/67 "2009-11-18T17:36:54Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Am I alone in being taught all this ‘unnecessary stuff’ yet still magically obtained the ability to read, write and count? No. Do you remember at what age you learned to read and write with reasonable proficiency? I was six. Somehow I doubt that the understanding of long division and multiplication would have eluded me much longer than that, provided I was actually exposed to those practices before/during first grade. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/68 "2009-11-18T17:39:02Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > And you really feel you’d be less impacted if you didn’t know the specific term for that kind of tree? If I’m ever _that_ compelled to learn a subject, I rely on my self motivation to go out and seek knowledge on that topic. > > Even then you’re going to be in the minority. Sure some people are going to benefit from classifying trees (it doesn’t surprise me that many of them are Dopers), but the vast majority is not – they’re going to forget it a few minutes after they’re tested and that will be that. Oh, come on. Two seconds of thought would tell you that the point isn’t that you learn that the trees that dump leaves on your yard are called deciduous trees, it’s that you learn that some trees drop their leaves seasonally and some don’t, and here are some reasons why that’s true. And here are some places where the trees are mostly evergreens and here are some places where they aren’t, and some reasons why _that’s_ true also. And here are some places where there are no trees at all, and here’s why. And here’s why most of the trees around here are loblolly pines - it isn’t because that’s the native forest type in this area, it’s because most of this land was once cleared for farming, and we’re going to go on a field trip to the Congaree Swamp to see old-growth native forest. Use your head. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/69 "2009-11-18T17:43:02Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > I suppose part of my problem is that so many kids end up graduating and being able to categorize trees yet still think evolution is a farce. The priorities seem to be out of whack. I think learning of our own origins would be a step higher than listing tree types. > … > neglecting the fundamentals like math, science, and English is why I see people graduating college and still using the wrong “they’re” constantly. Teaching is like popping popcorn. If you cook it too long, you pop the difficult kernels but burn the easy ones. If you cook it too short, you get a lot of unpopped kernels at the bottom of the bag. The only way to effectively carry it out is to pop a lot and leave some behind. Same thing in the classroom. No matter what system we use, some kids will turn out stupid. There will always be people that can’t use they’re/their. If you really strive to beat it into 100% of the kids, you’ll bore the intelligent half to death. They’ll hate school, and thus learning. You’re holding up these few kids that aren’t coming out of the system very educated, and claiming that the whole thing is flawed. I don’t know about you, but I know the difference between _their_ and _they’re_. It worked for me. It worked for you. The system isn’t broken. > [@rhubarbarin](#): > > I don’t mind learning facts that have no practical use. My complaint is that THEY DON’T TEACH **ANY** PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE of how to survive in the real world! I’m beginning to realize that my parents’ decision to send me to private school was the best decision of their parenting career. I learned all kinds of practical knowledge about how to survive in the real world. In a classroom setting, from a teacher using a lesson plan, I learned: How to tie a tie. How to balance a checkbook How to calculate interest Mortgages vs. leases, and how to know which is better in a situation Bank statements How to write a (good) resume How to interview well Dining etiquette in various cultures Current events around the world and locally, with full discussion/debate So I thoroughly disagree that real-world survival isn’t taught. > [@Mr.Krebbs](#): > > School actually prepares kids to spend 40 hours a week or more at a soul-sucking career where the only compensation is the means to (maybe) afford food and shelter – things which should be basic human rights anyway, but I digress. Good thing, too. Otherwise, we’d have a society of leeches. Or worse…_liberals!_:p. Sounds like you hate your job, not school. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/70 "2009-11-18T17:46:54Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > I generally agree with this. Schools should do a better job of teaching the real basics: How to feed and cloth yourself, how to look for a job and how to deal with the money you do have. If you have ever taken any high school classes for “slow” kids (of course, no dopers ever have), the do cover this kind of stuff sometimes - how to work a check book for example. Small problem with this. **I’m not the freaking parents!** Stop expecting me to do a job that belongs to the biological/social parents. I have enough on my plate teaching kids why the political system is broken. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/71 "2009-11-18T17:51:31Z")
> [@Mr.Krebbs](#): > > No. > > Do you remember at what age you learned to read and write with reasonable proficiency? I was six. Somehow I doubt that the understanding of long division and multiplication would have eluded me much longer than that, provided I was actually exposed to those practices before/during first grade. I have no such doubts, unless you’re truly a remarkable person. Very few people will be able to master multiplication without direct instruction. Again, this thread is the equivalent of people who think they know all about dentistry because they got their teeth cleaned. Education is more complicated than you think. You’ve not addressed ZPDs, the move from concrete to abstract thinking, self-talk, phonemic awareness, the debate between contructivists and traditionalists, or any of the myriad other topics that teachers must know about in order to perform their job competently. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/72 "2009-11-18T17:53:50Z")
[Ron White] If I’d known the difference between **anecdote** and **antidote** I could have saved my friend’s life. He got bitten by a snake, I shared an amusing story.[/Ron White] ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/73 "2009-11-18T18:01:26Z")
> [@CutterJohn](#): > > Also, music, as a class, needs to go bye bye. Extracurricular activity, sure, but the number of students who end up in music jobs is miniscule. Not a useful subject imo. Are you kidding me?! Of all the kids I went to school with, two ended up as a professional actor/singer. However, MANY of them went on to use music as a hobby as an adult. Some are in paid positions, some just do it for fun. MANY kids I know would not have stayed in school were it not for band. They liked band that much. School sucked for them but at least they had band to look forward to. Music programs aren’t about music. They’re about camaraderie, discipline and team/personal accomplishment. Even if you suck at band or choir you can still be part of a winning team. You are guaranteed a bunch of friends. You’re able to hone skills and move up or down within the ranks. You’re able to teach younger kids as you get older. You’re part of a community. In our school system, at least, everyone is required to be in the music classes in elementary school. By 5th grade, you’re able to join band and/or choir. By 6th grade, you’re able to stop taking any music if you want. Those elementary school classes, give you a chance to try out music and see what you think. If nothing else, they give you a chance to get out of your boring classroom and do something different and fun. Don’t knock school music programs. They’re probably the best part of the day for many many kids in the school. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/74 "2009-11-18T18:38:52Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > You print everything? Or you just never write anything down? I use cursive every day, whenever I need to write anything. > > This “cursive is useless and shouldn’t be taught” thing comes up every so often, and I still do not get it. At least for many people, cursive is the easiest, fastest, flowingest, most natural way to write. It’s something we do all the time. Why shouldn’t we have been taught how to do it? I write lots down, and I do it in print. Half of what I write down are equations anyway, so cursive was never really beneficial to me. And if I’m ever in the need to write large amounts of text, I type it. And I suppose as computers become more ubiquitous, especially in note-taking situations, cursive will continue to fade out of existence. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/75 "2009-11-18T18:45:25Z")
I also never claimed to have all the answers to solving the issues of education. I know it’s an extremely complex topic and one that I certainly don’t have the expertise to reformulate from the ground up. I do, however, still think time in class could be better spent, learning relevant life skills rather than trivial knowledge. There’s a reason so many students go to college and get in ridiculous debt (they never learned money management), or why so many people don’t “believe” in science and go to alternative medicine for treatments (they never learned to critically think and question the products and their efficacy). That doesn’t mean there’s suddenly no more place in school to teach a wide variety of topics so kids may peak their interests. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/76 "2009-11-18T18:48:22Z")
There is an old story about education: Once, when Euclid was teaching geometry, a student protested that none of this would ever be practical. Euclid threw a coin at the student, blacking his eye, and said “Never say you didn’t get anything useful from me! Now begone!” **BrandonR** , here is your coin. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/77 "2009-11-18T19:05:12Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Where do you draw the line? If it is not important to you to know the basic differences between types of trees, is it important to differentiate between trees and grasses? Plants and animals? Bacteria and viruses? Meh. Spray them all with Lysol. Let God sort it out. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/78 "2009-11-18T19:12:06Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > …Another kid wrote, “8 tiles”, and of course there were two distinct rectangles that people could create from that… Or four, depending on whether you consider 2x4 equivalent to 4x2 or not 🙂 Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren’t: changing the orientation of my bed would block my bedroom’s door, which is sort of a big oops. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/79 "2009-11-18T19:18:12Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > That doesn’t mean there’s suddenly no more place in school to teach a wide variety of topics so kids may peak their interests. You’re still not getting it. In many cases, the “trivia” is only the most superficial part of the lesson, the part of the lesson that matters the least in terms of long-term “education”. It doesn’t matter if a kid remembers specific tree names, but it does matter that they’re taught how to examine something on different levels, how to differentiate items, how to classify and categorize things, as well as something useful about the natural world, their local and wider environments. You can teach the same physics lesson by lecturing from a textbook on pure physics principles or by skipping stones. Guess which one a kid is more likely to spark to and remember? Per this discussion, would you be bitching and moaning about how rock-skipping is irrelevant to the child’s professional future, and missing the point by a wide country mile? Also, it’s “pique”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Krebbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5fc32e/32.png) [@Mr.Krebbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Krebbs)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958/80 "2009-11-18T19:21:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I have no such doubts, unless you’re truly a remarkable person. Very few people will be able to master multiplication without direct instruction. It is exceedingly bizarre that you seem to think I was stating direct instruction is extraneous. The point of my original post was that **after** arithmetic, reading and writing are taught to students that there are few obstacles to self-instruction. Certainly, there are other concepts that are very difficult to learn on one’s own. However, if one can read and write, he can definitely seek help of his own volition. This should adequately address the unquoted portion of your post. (Except, perhaps, for “self-talk” - I have no idea what that term means.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-schools-waste-so-much-time-teaching-pointless-stuff/517958.md?page=5)