# Why do science fiction fans dislike the term "sci-fi"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 17, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679 "2009-08-17T01:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/21 "2009-08-17T04:33:51Z")
[Butterflies](http://www.xkcd.com/378/) are clearly the best. ---
**Author:** ![Hometownboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5e9695/32.png) [@Hometownboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hometownboy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/22 "2009-08-17T05:35:43Z")
Having read SF for more than 50 years, attended cons, interviewed and corresponded with authors, I’d like to seriously second Wendell Wagner’s posts #11 & #12. It’s a distinction that once meant a lot (at least to me) but it’s a fight long lost. It still grates, though, much as hearing some twentysomething quote someone by saying “He was like…” instead of “He said…” ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/23 "2009-08-17T08:01:02Z")
I can’t claim to have read SF (my preferred term) for over 50 years, but I will claim to have read it for over 40 years. My grandfather read it before me, and I was allowed to browse most\* of his extensive collection when I was a child. He’s also the one who chided me about using the term sci-fi, which he claimed was mostly used by people who didn’t read the genre\*\*. I’d seen it used as a category in a bookstore, and was very impressed with myself for figuring out what it meant. I’ve read my share of books with titles like **Revenge of the Ant Men** and **Bimbos of the Death Sun** \*\*\* before I developed a little discrimination. I had to read a lot of bad stuff, though, before I could understand what made the good stuff worth reading. I don’t like the term sci-fi because most of the people who use it don’t know much about the field, and think that books like **Revenge of the Ant Men** are genuinely representative of the genre, and that there are no good SF books. They think that it’s either SF OR it’s good, a book/story/movie can’t be both. \*After he died, we found a large stash of Playboys and other men’s magazines in the garage. I’m sure he read them mostly for the articles. Or so he would have claimed. From what I understand, Playboy did pay generously for fiction of all sorts, but I know that Grandpa had a roving eye…and other roving body parts. \*\*Grandpa was the sort of person who would use the word genre to a nine year old child, and then explain what it means. \*\*\*Which isn’t SF at all, it’s a very good mystery book that takes place at a science fiction/fantasy convention. It won an Edgar, IIRC. The title was in reference to a title that one of the book’s main characters wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/24 "2009-08-17T10:18:29Z")
Talking of Playboy, one of the most enjoyable shorts I ever read was in a spank-mag. It was called something like “We Always Have To Be Asked” and the plot ran roughly as follows… An otherwise largely decent man is, for once, in the kind of mood where he would happily pay for a contract hit on someone (his boss, his wife… can’t remember, doesn’t really matter) and he happens to notice an ad box in the Yellow Pages for just the service he requires. On impulse he calls it and learns that they can do what he wants, but it will be expensive “just for a one-off”. His curiosity is piqued enough to ask what they mean by this, and they explain that the unit price goes down with volume; for instance, two hits would cost only about 50% more than one. He goes away and thinks about it, and decides that there are one or two more people he would like to see pushing up daisies, so he calls the number again… And again and again, as the price keeps tumbling. And then, after his hit list has grown to epic proportions, he has one of those once-too-often-to-the-well moments, and unwisely asks “How much would it cost to kill _everyone_?” And the reply is, “Nothing. We do that entirely for nothing. But we had to be asked. We always have to be asked.” And then the line goes dead… and then the screaming starts in the street outside. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/25 "2009-08-17T11:23:28Z")
Now, here are a couple of questions: 1. Was the story in the previous post Science Fiction or Fantasy? 2. Does it matter? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/26 "2009-08-17T11:47:43Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Talking of Playboy, one of the most enjoyable shorts I ever read was in a spank-mag. It was called something like “We Always Have To Be Asked” and the plot ran roughly as follows… > > An otherwise largely decent man is, for once, in the kind of mood where he would happily pay for a contract hit on someone (his boss, his wife… can’t remember, doesn’t really matter) and he happens to notice an ad box in the Yellow Pages for just the service he requires. On impulse he calls it and learns that they can do what he wants, but it will be expensive “just for a one-off”. His curiosity is piqued enough to ask what they mean by this, and they explain that the unit price goes down with volume; for instance, two hits would cost only about 50% more than one. > > He goes away and thinks about it, and decides that there are one or two more people he would like to see pushing up daisies, so he calls the number again… > > And again and again, as the price keeps tumbling. > > And then, after his hit list has grown to epic proportions, he has one of those once-too-often-to-the-well moments, and unwisely asks “How much would it cost to kill _everyone_?” And the reply is, “Nothing. We do that entirely for nothing. But we had to be asked. We always have to be asked.” > > And then the line goes dead… and then the screaming starts in the street outside. 😃 I can’t recall the title either but the above story is by Neil Gaiman. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/27 "2009-08-17T13:58:55Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Well, science fiction fans tend to be giant dweebs. And giant dweebs like to argue over insignificant shit. > > Trust me, I know. Just get me in a discussion about why Emacs is better than vi and the proper pronunciation of “SQL.” Hummm, I was saying that they are snobs, but a strange sort. Because SF Fans have their genre trashed so frequently by “literature snobs” they’ve developed a special snobbery of their own - the most visible which is “SF” instead of “SciFi.” ---
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/28 "2009-08-17T14:01:53Z")
Thanks for the great responses to my OP. I’m enough of a SF fan to have encountered the dislike of “sci-fi” but not enough to have know the associations the term had. I have never called it anything but “science fiction”. And BTW: vi is OK if you get used to it. I liked Emacs because I could sort of emulate my favorite Brief commands. I miss Brief (_sniff_). ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/29 "2009-08-17T14:54:41Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Star Wars has the trappings of SF, what with driods and hyperdrives and the like. “Space Opera” I’ll grant you, but if McCaffrey can claim “Pern” as science fiction rather than fantasy then Star Wars sure is. (Not to say that you are wrong in your contention that space and dragons aren’t the defining aspects of the sub-genres; and I think Pern is fantasy). 🙂 Drives me nuts … if you read the whole of the Pern series, it starts out pure fantasy - Lessa uses ‘magic’ to blur her looks and make her less of a target for abuse. She mentally controls a watchbeast that is related to dragons, she mentally can talk with dragons, and she tries to use magic to get the dragonrider to challenge the userper to a duel. There was nothing in the original book about them being colonists from space, that sort of developed later. too geeky for my own good =( ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/30 "2009-08-17T14:56:18Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Cross-time and Alternate History type stories are also a Speculative fiction sub-genre, but do not define the whole thing. The Belisarius Series by Flint and Drake is a perfect example of sped fic - alternate history where crystals from the future are changing earth history to manipulate their future the way they want it. Actually it would make a great CGI series. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/31 "2009-08-17T16:44:03Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > ed? 😃 Too sophisticated. [teco](http://almy.us/teco.html) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/32 "2009-08-17T16:48:04Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > \*After he died, we found a large stash of Playboys and other men’s magazines in the garage. I’m sure he read them mostly for the articles. Or so he would have claimed. From what I understand, Playboy did pay generously for fiction of all sorts, but I know that Grandpa had a roving eye…and other roving body parts. Playboy actually published quite a bit of good sf, and paid well. I have a large anthology of their sf, and one of their fantasy (not that kind ) too. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/33 "2009-08-17T16:49:17Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Drives me nuts … if you read the whole of the Pern series, it starts out pure fantasy - Lessa uses ‘magic’ to blur her looks and make her less of a target for abuse. She mentally controls a watchbeast that is related to dragons, she mentally can talk with dragons, and she tries to use magic to get the dragonrider to challenge the userper to a duel. There was nothing in the original book about them being colonists from space, that sort of developed later. > > too geeky for my own good =( The very first Pern story was published in Analog, (“Weyr Search”) and so it was sf by definition. I don’t remember if it mentioned them being colonists, but I had that impression. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/34 "2009-08-17T17:08:01Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The very first Pern story was published in Analog, (“Weyr Search”) and so it was sf by definition. I don’t remember if it mentioned them being colonists, but I had that impression. Can’t speak for the magazine version of “Weyr Search”, but the first two pages of _Dragonflight_ tell you where and what Pern is and how it came to be human-inhabited. The natives, however, have long since forgotten how their forefathers got there. @ **DocCathode** - A young Neil Gaiman, then - that was in the early 1980s. Not surprising that the name didn’t register with me at the time. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/35 "2009-08-17T17:32:22Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Well, science fiction fans tend to be giant dweebs. And giant dweebs like to argue over insignificant shit. Yep. I get where people are coming from re the way the genre has been misunderstood, misrepresented, and trashed by the literati. But making a big deal about calling it “SF” rather than “SciFi” won’t change that. It has the opposite effect. It just makes it seem even more like the genre’s fans are a bunch of pedantic basement-dwelling nerds. SciFi is my favorite fiction genre, and I’ve spent the last few years attempting to read the “canon.” I’m pretty darn well-read as far as classic science fiction goes. Call it SF, sci fi, speculative fiction…I don’t give a hoot. Just give me a good apocalypse and I’m happy. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/36 "2009-08-17T17:33:39Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Just give me a good apocalypse and I’m happy. We can do that. We just had to be asked. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/37 "2009-08-17T17:38:33Z")
Look, people can go mad trying to define science fiction, but, really, it’s _all_ fantasy. _Alll_ fiction is fantasy. It describes things that haven’t happened, with characters that never existed. If you want to limit fantasy to eliminate mainstream fiction, then science fiction is fantasy, too. It’s fanciful events and wonders and how people react to them. The only difference is that science fiction assumes a “scientific” basis for the fantasy elements, while fantasy assumes as “magic” basis. But there is nothing functionally different between them. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/38 "2009-08-17T17:45:59Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Too sophisticated. [teco](http://almy.us/teco.html) It runs on a Mac! > [@Bosstone](#): > > We can do that. We just had to be asked. > > 😃 Wait, that’s that outsi NO CARRIER ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/39 "2009-08-17T18:45:46Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > I think you mean “super-set”, or that SF is the subset. Or, if not, I’ll politely disagree with you. 🙂 As will I. Speculative fiction is very inclusive, and definitely not a subset of anything but fiction itself. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679/40 "2009-08-17T20:17:44Z")
For the same reason many residents of San Francisco twitch and get all preachy when you refer to their precious city as, “Frisco.” It gives them a reason to get all pissy and inflate their self-importance by ranting at someone who dared use a derogatory diminutive for something they use as a component of their identity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-science-fiction-fans-dislike-the-term-sci-fi/506679.md?page=3)