# Why do/should cops that abuse their authority keep their job? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267 "2019-09-15T14:56:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/1 "2019-09-15T14:56:27Z")
I could pull up many videos of cops that use their authority to abuse the public. This includes [Lying about consent laws\* then arresting people on no evidence when they legally refuse.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ap6Kmo69lQ) Demanding a pregnant black\*\* woman show her ID (which you do not have to show in California so another made up law\*) [then physically abuse her when she (legally) doesn’t show ID](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpOOySpNtrc). Guy brutalized for apparently [having too many keys](https://youtu.be/vhJLf_R_Nlo?t=387). Again, [let’s lie about ID laws](https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/when-must-you-show-id-to-police/105781661)\* and harass a guy for [walking down a street and turning your head.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD4HSP4GblI) I’m not even going to post to the multiple videos where cops steal cell phones that are LEGALLY recording their work in public. If I abused my authority like that for either racism or any other reason I know I’d get fired (like you would if you’re not a cop) and furthermore there’s a chance I’d lose my teaching license if that extreme. But not so with cops. Despite the abuse of authority and at best ignorance of the law\* but I suspect in many cases that they just don’t give a fuck what the law is, they keep their job. WHY?! Not only should they get fired but in extreme cases like I showed they should lose their license and never be an LEO again. Can anyone tell me why LEOs are above the same standard for job performance that civilians are. Can anyone justify why these people should be allowed to be in law enforcement? \*If ignorance is not an excuse to violate the law for civilians then LEOs damn well cannot use the excuse they don’t know the law. \*\*If you see the whole video they did not ask a white woman involved in the situation to see her ID ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/2 "2019-09-15T17:18:20Z")
First time they do this kind of shit they can go back to the academy on their own dime–seriously, take all the required courses again but they’re on unpaid administrative leave until they pass and if they pass they go through probationary again at probie wages. Happens again, fired for cause, done, not eligible for rehire ever. The kind of power a cop wields over the lives of citizens is too great to allow petty power drunk shitbirds to keep their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/3 "2019-09-15T19:35:45Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Not only should they get fired but in extreme cases like I showed they should lose their license and never be an LEO again. There’s a license? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/4 "2019-09-16T13:08:28Z")
> [@kirkrapine](#): > > There’s a license? Yep. Typically called POST licensing. Here is [Missouri’s information](https://dps.mo.gov/dir/programs/post/licensing.php) on it which is pretty typical. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/5 "2019-09-16T13:47:45Z")
Because you have to walk a mile in their shoes before you can accept the fact that sometimes it’s necessary to punch a handcuffed man in the face repeatedly. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/6 "2019-09-16T14:40:11Z")
They shouldn’t. Unfortunately, far too many useless or very dangerous workers have far too many obstacles for their removal. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/7 "2019-09-16T14:45:47Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > First time they do this kind of shit they can go back to the academy on their own dime–seriously, take all the required courses again but they’re on unpaid administrative leave until they pass and if they pass they go through probationary again at probie wages. IMO, it’s not a training issue. The cops who blatantly infringe on rights are sociopaths. Training won’t fix that. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/8 "2019-09-16T20:05:34Z")
The following is based on my recollections from articles I’ve read regarding officers behaving badly. IIRC one of the reasons frequently cited is that these officers can’t be fired due to union rules. It also seems like the police officers union is also the first to stick up for the officers in such cases. I’m not sure why police officer unions have so much power, but that does seem to be a big part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/9 "2019-09-16T20:14:22Z")
The actual answer to the OP is that police and police unions are extremely politically powerful, and in most cases have negotiated ridiculous collective bargaining agreements that look like a conservative’s fantasy about what teacher unions get. They are able to do so because Americans are extremely deferential to and respectful of police, contrary to the Blue Lives Matter propaganda that police unions disingenuously publish. It it telling that it is an apocalyptic controversy in deep blue NYC that a single police officer got fired for killing a man using an illegal chokehold five years after the fact. Over that sleight, the police union is at war with City officials. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/10 "2019-09-16T20:41:03Z")
But if a state takes away their POST license then the union wouldn’t matter, right? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/11 "2019-09-16T21:00:16Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > It it telling that it is an apocalyptic controversy in deep blue NYC that a single police officer got fired for killing a man using an illegal chokehold five years after the fact. Over that sleight, the police union is at war with City officials. It’s actually not as much of a controversy as it appears- the only question plenty of New Yorkers have is " Why’d it take five years?". A bigger question and one that I have yet to figure out, is why NYPD unions have so much influence on politicians when nearly half of them don’t live in the city and therefore can’t vote for city officials. **Saint Cad** , while many places may have POST or other licenses for police officers, NYS doesn’t. While there is mandatory training with administrative oversight by a state agency, that training can be completed at either a regional police academy or a large agency can operate their own academy. There are four or five academies in NYC alone. There isn’t any license to take away. ---
**Author:** ![Teddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ab992/32.png) [@Teddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teddie)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/12 "2019-09-16T21:16:07Z")
As an anti fascist, someone who called themselves a pacifist but who quickly realised that if punch is being thrown at your head you have to react pretty quick smart. I will Never choose to fight but I will defend myself. As anti fa you’re all tarred with the same brush. I do not cover my face but I will be front line and shout and make it known why I’m protesting. I’ve been kettled and violently attacked whist peacefully protesting. I’ve been arrested and detained without cause. I’m not the greatest fan of the police. I’m a 42 year old woman, 100lbs before anyone asks if I’m an intimidating threat. ---
**Author:** ![Teddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ab992/32.png) [@Teddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teddie)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/13 "2019-09-16T21:18:58Z")
> **[Far-right and anti-fascist protesters clash in Dover](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/30/far-right-anti-fascist-protesters-clash-dover)** > > Witnesses report fighting and bricks thrown after hundreds of anti-fascists travel to city to oppose rightwing demonstration against refugees Was assaulted here by fash and then by the police who kettled us and pushed me to the floor, twice, then kettled us for 6 hrs. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/14 "2019-09-17T01:19:47Z")
> [@Crafter Man](#): > > IMO, it’s not a training issue. The cops who blatantly infringe on rights are sociopaths. Training won’t fix that. I don’t expect it would–I do expect that the majority of the shitheads would quit rather than be humbled like that and if they did tough it out they’d be hard pressed to misunderstand how much side eye they’d be given in perpetuity and would have to find other ways to vent their power complexes. You know, like NORMAL PEOPLE. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/15 "2019-09-17T03:36:27Z")
I just learned what “kettling” is. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/16 "2019-09-17T07:08:41Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > The actual answer to the OP is that police and police unions are extremely politically powerful, and in most cases have negotiated ridiculous collective bargaining agreements that look like a conservative’s fantasy about what teacher unions get. They are able to do so because Americans are extremely deferential to and respectful of police, contrary to the Blue Lives Matter propaganda that police unions disingenuously publish. Pretty much. The police union goes to bat for everyone, in ways that are downright dangerous. You wanna know how pervasive this is? Here’s the local union’s [statement](https://www.facebook.com/SCFOP3/photos/a.570283016319701/1040255622655769/?type=1&theater) after the shooting of Walter Scott, where a police officer shot a fleeing man in the back eight times, then planted evidence and attempted to frame the victim, all caught on camera. > [@](#): > > In light of the recent events surrounding the North Charleston incident, the Tri-County Fraternal of Police Lodge is concerned about the comments being made by other organizations regarding local law enforcement. To address the poisonous half-truths, we are releasing the following open letter to the news outlets and social media. > > The recent tragedy in North Charleston has spurred much anti-police rhetoric. While this shooting is beyond comprehension, the law enforcement officers of the Charleston area are still pinning on their badge every day. They go to work to protect communities and defend those who are targets of evil doers. These dedicated men and women are still responding to calls for help. They are still stopping the drunk driver. They are still protecting our schools. They are still here to serve. > > Do not allow the professional race agitators to seize this moment to advance their often self-serving opinions of what is wrong in South Carolina. Do not allow them to bemoan the lack of trust of police by the minority community. Do not allow them to beat down the hard working men and women of the Lowcountry’s Law Enforcement. > > These same men and women put their lives on the line to stop the criminal element from overwhelming our homes and families. These brave officers are saving lives. > > Take for example, Charleston Police Officer TerryAnn Ferguson who administered CPR to save a baby’s life. Or South Carolina Trooper M. McDonald who used his training to keep a man from bleeding to death. Or Summerville Officer Ed McCreary who performed the Heimlich maneuver to save an Alston Middle School student from dying. Or Hanahan Officer Travis Dodd who pulled people from a burning apartment complex. Or North Charleston Officer Hampton Jenkins who dove underwater to save a trapped automobile crash victim. > > These are only a small sampling of the good works by local law officers. > > Do not allow this incident to stereotype the entire law enforcement profession. Officers want to help. > > All you have to do is let them. Look at this garbage! A cop just murdered a man in cold blood and tried to frame him, and the best they can offer is “one bad apple” in between rebukes of the “professional race agitators”. Or how about the police union in the shooting of Tamir Rice? Surely they didn’t defend a cop who rushed up on the scene and shot a 12-year-old to death immediately after exiting his car, right? [Like fuck](https://newsone.com/3847588/tamir-rice-appeal/). Nearly five years after Tamir Rice was killed by an overzealous cop, the police union involved was looking to vindicate the officer who fired the fatal shots into the 12-year-old boy. The Cleveland Police Patrolmen’s Association (CPPA) on Friday filed an appeal to overturn the termination of former officer Timothy Loehmann, arguing that he was fired for something not related to the shooting. “Officer Loehmann has been treated unfairly by the city and the arbitration,” Police Union president Jeff Follmer told a local Fox affiliate after the appeal was filed. “We are hoping whatever county judge receives this appeal will go on the merits of fact and not political pressure.” And to add insult to injury, [here’s what they had to say to the victim’s family](https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2811847/Loomis-statement.pdf): “We can only hope the Rice family and their attorneys will use a portion of this settlement to help educate the youth of Cleveland in the dangers associated with the mishandling of both real and facsimile firearms,” the statement read. “Something positive must come from this tragic loss. That would be educating youth of the dangers of possessing a real or replica firearm.” _Holy fucking shit_! We could have done without the shitty fucking parting shot, you utter cretins! In fact, in the case of Eric Garner, where a police officer used an illegal chokehold and killed a man over some loose cigarettes, that the officer was eventually fired was met with pushback from the union that was arguably illegal. The head of the union released [a statement](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-union-suggests-work-slowdown-after-nypd-officer-fired-eric-n1044486) saying “We are urging all New York City police officers to proceed with the utmost caution in this new reality, in which they may be deemed ‘reckless’ just for doing their job”, and [arrests have plunged since then](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/eric-garner-death-nypd-arrests-plunge-since-officer-daniel-pantaleo-firing-over-chokehold-death/), giving rise to speculation (well-founded speculation, mind) that we’re seeing a “slowdown”. Police Unions will go to mat for their members. This is not inherently a bad thing, but there are _a lot_ of really shitty cops, and the union doesn’t seem willing to admit that even after they’ve killed someone. Even when the union firmly rejects an officer, as it did in the case of officer Slager, there’s still no reckoning, and we can tell that anyone who doesn’t reach the level of “shot a man in cold blood then was caught trying to frame him on camera” will see union protection and be borderline impossible to fire. I don’t really have a good solution for this. Unionbusting seems like a bad idea in general, and workers rights are important, but holy shit, are police unions fucking awful. And that’s without even touching on the ways that they see antifascists as a far greater threat than, say, armed neo-nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/17 "2019-09-17T10:29:58Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > IMO, it’s not a training issue. The cops who blatantly infringe on rights are sociopaths. Training won’t fix that. It won’t fix the ones who intentionally infringe on rights, but it could fix the ones who work themselves into panics over routine interactions (partially because of BS like “there’s no such thing as routine”). ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/18 "2019-09-17T16:10:17Z")
Where do they get BS like that if not from their training? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/19 "2019-09-17T16:27:02Z")
Same answer as always : because _you_ don’t want to be a cop. And your friend doesn’t want to be a cop. I certainly don’t want to be a cop. I don’t want to walk all day cutting parking tickets. I don’t want to sit in my car all day watching speed readouts. I don’t want to tussle in the mud with a crack smoking homeless guy for whom I feel more pity than anything but is being a dick right now. I don’t want to argue with drunks. I don’t want to be smartarsed at by teenagers. I don’t want to listen to Karen’s rant about why it’s totally, like, OK she was speeding because she’s in a. hurry. Owkay ? I don’t want to look at dead bodies that have been ripening for six weeks until the neighbours got fed with the smell. I don’t want to brutalize students for the audacity of demonstrating. \*\*None \*\*of this is appealing to you or me. And the pay sucks. You don’t become a cop. You end up a cop. The only people who become cops are people down on their luck, and assholes who crave power. And there aren’t enough of either for the manpower needs. So the assholes mostly get to stay until they go WAY over the line, at which point they switch precincts. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267/20 "2019-09-17T16:35:48Z")
That’s not true. Lots of good people become cops for noble reasons or simply because the pay is decent for their level of education in their community. But you needn’t have any special sociological theory to explain why many cops are assholes. Many humans are assholes. Its just that most humans aren’t given the extraordinary power and discretion and protection from oversight given to police. So the normal ratio of assholes in that profession really fucks it up, and will do so unless and until you get adequate measures of oversight and limits on power. I suspect that the more important sociological sieve is that people who become cops are marginally more authoritarian-minded, for obvious reasons. They get angrier than the average person when their authority is challenged. In some places, that tendency is exacerbated by bad training in which officers are taught that maintaining an authoritative presence over the scene is the main way to stay safe, which discourages them from using much more effective de-escalation tactics. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-should-cops-that-abuse-their-authority-keep-their-job/840267.md?page=2)