# Why do so few Americans know how to drive a stick shift? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 26, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439 "2011-07-26T23:00:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/221 "2011-07-29T00:56:37Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > As it stands, appliance drivers in the USA are terrible and cost everyone else money. No, BAD drivers are costing everyone else money. Whether or not you regard the car as an appliance has nothing to do with how good or bad a driver you are. I regard my car as an appliance. I just want it to get me safely from Point A to Point B. And a big reason I prefer automatic transmissions in my car is that they allow me to pay less attention to the car and more attention to the road. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/222 "2011-07-29T03:31:35Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Realted question maybe suitable for a seperate thread: > > Anybody out there who knows how to drive a motorcylce yet can’t drive a manual automobile? Yes and no. The time my roommate tried to teach me his manual car was before I came to Thailand. In my early days in Thailand, I did learn to drive a motorcycle upcountry. Haven’t touched one in more than 20 years now though – no way I’m driving one in Bangkok – and not sure I’d remember right away. I’m sure it would come back. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/223 "2011-07-29T05:14:23Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > I know I’ve already attempted to correct this poster, with no response, but for the benefit of others reading, I’ll point out again that almost every single statement made here is completely wrong, and the poster has no understanding of how transmissions or race cars. This is ironic for someone attempting to belittle people who prefer manual transmissions by way of the supposed technological superiority of automatics. No response? Completely wrong? “Every single statement here is completely wrong”? Pull your head out of where your brain is. The jist of the thread is that somehow, in some people’s minds a manual transmission is superior to an automatic transmission. I define a “manual” transmission as a drive train where a manually operated clutch and a manually operated lever determines what gear the car will be in, no matter what. There are very sophisticated, paddle shifted cars that give the driver that control but, there is no manual clutch and, because of computer overrides will not allow the driver to do something that is utterly stupid. So how is the manual system inherently better? “Every single statement?”, get a clue. The manual transmission is like the carburetor. It’s essentially obsolete based on what is available in the cheapest cars. Give it up. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/224 "2011-07-29T07:33:27Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > I define a “manual” transmission as a drive train where a manually operated clutch and a manually operated lever determines what gear the car will be in, no matter what. \*"“When I use a word,” R. P. McMurphy said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.” \* Feel free to define “manual” that way, but it has very little to do with this thread. No one here is absolutely wedded to the idea of a manual clutch. What we want is control and responsiveness. Fancy paddle-operated dual-clutch systems offer this, and are thus a viable upgrade from conventional manual systems. Typical slushboxes do not offer this. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/225 "2011-07-29T08:21:25Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > \*"“When I use a word,” R. P. McMurphy said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.” > \* > Feel free to define “manual” that way, but it has very little to do with this thread. No one here is absolutely wedded to the idea of a manual clutch. What we want is control and responsiveness. Fancy paddle-operated dual-clutch systems offer this, and are thus a viable upgrade from conventional manual systems. Typical slushboxes do not offer this. I’m wedded to the idea of a manual clutch. If it doesn’t have a clutch pedal it’s not a manual transmission. A high end slushbox can offer all the control and responsiveness you state, e.g. Any Mercedes 5G-TRONIC since the late 90s will rev match, hold gears to red line, and shift faster than you can move the shift lever, and yet it’s a regular slushbox with a torque converter (some of the newer 7 speed ones have substituted a dry clutch), valve body, planetary gearsets, and all that jazz. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/226 "2011-07-29T09:09:31Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > I’m wedded to the idea of a manual clutch. If it doesn’t have a clutch pedal it’s not a manual transmission. Well ok, we have one person here :). What do you think about dual clutch systems? The very epithet “slushbox” implies to me a torque converter, since that is the source of the weird disconnect between engine RPM and speed. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/227 "2011-07-29T10:33:32Z")
I’m not going to force anyone to drive a manual if they don’t want to. It’s not nearly as hard, and doesn’t require nearly the amount of effort that some on this thread have implied, bu to each his own. I drive a 5-speed Honda Element to work 38 miles each way in Atlanta traffic. Lot’s of stop and go, a few starts on hills, etc. I can assure you I do not get to work with an over-tired left leg from the clutch, and an exhausted right arm from rowing the shifter. I know some of the posters in this thread will not agree, but the manual transmission is not an anachronism. It is not a relic from a bygone era. It is simply a different way to do something. I (speaking for myself and no one else) enjoy driving a manual transmission, I do not enjoy driving an automatic. Simple as that. For those of you casting manual transmission drivers as resistant to change or technology, you’re wrong. I don’t hang on to a manual transmission because I’m unwilling to move on. Not at all, my Element has a built-in GPS, bluetooth, ipod control, power everything (windows, locks, etc), four wheel drive, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/228 "2011-07-29T12:11:12Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > My car is a modern car (2001–kind of old, but I think it still falls within “modern”) and it can be started by popping the clutch. There’s another advantage I’d forgotten, until somebody mentioned it. We had a habit, a couple of years ago, of somebody not quite shutting the door. I could roll the car out of the garage, pop the clutch, and it would be running before I got to the street. > > I know it’s possible to start a manual by giving it a push but I think you have to get it going a hell of a lot faster, if that even still works, and it may not. As long as you push it up to enough speed so that the engine revs high enough when you pop the clutch, then the engine should start, assuming the battery has enough juice, and also assuming the ECU cooperates. The ECU on my car does not cooperate; I don’t know if that’s unique or not. However, no car can be bump-started if the battery is dead flat. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/229 "2011-07-29T12:41:34Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I’d never advocate driving recklessly, but hot-rodding it a little bit can be safe, legal, and fun. Take those turns a little bit faster. Floor it when hitting the onramp onto the highway. Whatever. That moves driving away from “boring” and toward “scary”. Sorry, I’d rather have boring than scary. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/230 "2011-07-29T12:50:13Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > That moves driving away from “boring” and toward “scary”. Sorry, I’d rather have boring than scary. Sure, I’d rather have boring than scary, but there’s a lot of gray between those two black/and white extremes. Not sure exactly where on that boring-to-scary continuum it falls, but I’ll take “involved” over boring. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/231 "2011-07-29T13:07:42Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > I’m not going to force anyone to drive a manual if they don’t want to. Yes, but you’re sensible. 😃 Some people (like you) prefer a manual transmission. Others (like me) prefer an automatic. Either will get the job done just fine. It’s only an issue if you find yourself driving in a part of the world where your preferred transmission is rare (which brings us back to the start of this thread). ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/232 "2011-07-29T13:54:46Z")
It’s a [bullshit grinder debate topic](http://growabrain.typepad.com/growabrain/2008/05/bullshit-grinde.html) by that I mean: people take great delight and effort to debate something that _does not matter_. You might as well debate which is better: Red or Green? Sticks are more involving, the let you do fiddly things like rev-matching and force the car to do what _you_ tell it to do, without intervention, for better or worse. They can be cheaper, they can get better gas milage, but those things are irrelevant if you just want to row the gears (a movement that surprisingly approximates using a bullshit grinder). I can slam the automatic lovers by saying they have no confidence in their skills, I can say they want to concentrate on a potentially violent act (driving a car) as little as possible, I can say “if using a clutch in heavy traffic is too much effort, perhaps you should exercise more”, but those are just foils in the debate…they’re irrelevant because you’re trying to come up with a mathematical reason for an emotional preference. You don’t WANT a stick? The car you Really Want isn’t available with a stick? Both good reasons. A stick is Better Than an auto (or CVT)? Not as defendable a stance. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/233 "2011-07-29T14:13:42Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > It’s a [bullshit grinder debate topic](http://growabrain.typepad.com/growabrain/2008/05/bullshit-grinde.html) by that I mean: people take great delight and effort to debate something that _does not matter_. Browse through all the thread titles in IMHO or MPSIMS. What do you think is done here? Very little discussed here matters in any meaningful way but people enjoy discussing things anyway so here we all are. > [@](#): > > You might as well debate which is better: Red or Green? Green is the color of grass and cows like to eat it and then the cows taste good but red is the color of fire and sunburn and both of those things hurt so green is the obvious choice. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/234 "2011-07-29T14:22:57Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Well ok, we have one person here :). > > What do you think about dual clutch systems? The very epithet “slushbox” implies to me a torque converter, since that is the source of the weird disconnect between engine RPM and speed. Make that TWO people here, no clutch pedal = not a true manual, I’ve driven a DSG equipped VW Jetta, the DSG did shift well, but any transmission you can put into “D” and let the transmission shift for you is not a real manual transmission The DSG is nothing more than an automatic with a fancy manual override mode, IOW, a “manumatic”, it may have a dual clutch system instead of a torque converter, but since it can shift on it’s own, it’s not a real manual ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/235 "2011-07-29T14:33:18Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > To a first approximation, engines wear out because you have parts rubbing up against each other, and lubrication isn’t perfect. An engine at twice the RPM has twice the “rubs per second” and (again, very roughly) wears at twice the rate, even if it’s producing a similar amount of power. Assuming most everything else is maintained reasonably well, a good deal of mechanical wear on an engine will take place during cold starts, when the oil isn’t warm enough to best lubricate the motor. Along with this, it’s the _heat from the friction_ that causes premature wear, among other factors. Wear while driving across your normal rev range, under most daily driving demands, is negligible, and in a number of cases, it’s not unhealthy for the engine to be taken/ran in the upper RPMs. Having performed regular used oil analysis, where you can detect various wear metals in the motor to determine engine health, it’s been determined that even increased wear from years of stop and go city traffic, results in a near negligible reduction in longevity (at least in my experiences, and a number of others I can account for). > [@](#): > > That’s not to say there isn’t a time or place for using the full RPM range–if you need the power, then use it–but it will cause extra wear. I’ve seen people track their vehicles using full synthetics, as well as daily drive the vehicle, and the UOA didn’t show any abnormal wear that would raise concern (meaning, the car would surpass 100k miles, reliably, or whatever the current expected service life is, these days). Relating this more to the topic, in a nutshell, it’s just far easier to _drive_ the car normally, as opposed to trying to use a manual gearbox and such habits, to extend the engine’s life. Just the opposite, there isn’t much evidence that such driving habits _do_ extend the life by anything substantial, if at all. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/236 "2011-07-29T14:35:01Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > My belief is that the USa, being a car-dependent country, has many residents who regard automobiles as boring appliances and don’t give much thought to the social or community aspect of driving a car: they don’t give a shit about anyone else as long as they get to wherever they want to go. > > You lacksadaisical, bad, horrible, “it’s just an appliance” drivers - it’s your sort that crippled my mother. It’s your sort that make my insurance go up. It’s your sort that makes my commute a nightmare. Do you have even a shred of data that supports this assertion? There are so many factors involved in a country’s death rates, including safety features, speed limits, training, traffic patterns, the age of drivers, and the amount of drunk driving, among other things, that I have a hard time believing that you can make the logical leap required to blame it on people who don’t enjoy driving. If we’re pulling assertions out of the air, my anecdotal evidence tells that none of the “appliance” drivers in my family has ever been in an accident, while those that enjoy driving more (and drive manuals more often) have had several accidents and many, many more speeding tickets. So drivers of cars with standard transmissions must be worse, right? ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/237 "2011-07-29T14:46:25Z")
As far as automatics in the USA, I think part of the American dream is cruising, just driving a big-ass car with a plush seat down a big-ass road, one arm around your sweetie, the other arm holding a drink/cigarette and the steering wheel. But more realistically the USA has a lot of open highway, which lends itself to automatics, and a lot of city/suburbs, and driving in traffic lends itself to automatics. Multitasking (drinking, shaving, talking on the cell phone, putting on makeup) lends itself to automatics too. Many Americans have a busy life. I think people are generally better off driving a manual, it’s a bit more physical effort (and most of us need more exercise), it keeps the driver more alert and involved, and it can be more efficient than an automatic. But hey, that’s their choice. If the market didn’t want automatics then the majority of cars wouldn’t be automatics. I wonder what the correlation of rural dweller to manual transmission fans is? I live in a rural area with twisty hilly roads and prefer manuals. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/238 "2011-07-29T15:27:55Z")
Green is the better color. At least over red. ---
**Author:** ![BDoors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BDoors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BDoors)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/239 "2011-07-29T15:30:03Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > the USA has a lot of open highway, which lends itself to automatics. We touched on this before, but I don’t understand this point. Open highway is one place where the disadvantages of manuals don’t matter, because you rarely need to change gear. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439/240 "2011-07-29T15:44:39Z")
> [@MacTech](#): > > Make that TWO people here, no clutch pedal = not a true manual, I’ve driven a DSG equipped VW Jetta, the DSG did shift well, but any transmission you can put into “D” and let the transmission shift for you is not a real manual transmission I’m one for the “other” camp. I drive both a clutch driven manual car, and an auto/clutch-less manual car w/ locking converter. I love them both, for different reasons, but in being honest, the first carries a longer list of subjective merits. In most other situations, especially objective ones, I’d take the latter gearbox EVERY time, and transplant the gearbox into the former vehicle in half a heartbeat, if I could. I’m not so much worried about being “true/real”, as that’s usually influenced by ego, or simply varies by who you ask. Manual control, for me = driver motivated decision/intention. If I want to control my gear selection, independent of a pre-programmed TCU, I can do it in either car. To add, both cars come with somewhat similar safeguards; the most obvious being the gear lockout to prevent over-revving from high speed downshifts. The only real difference, is the clutch-less vehicle only disables full manual control in overheating situations, and obviously prevents stalling. I don’t desire either, as they certainly aren’t beneficial traits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-few-americans-know-how-to-drive-a-stick-shift/590439.md?page=13)