# Why do so many Americans feel they need tools for killing people? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849 "2015-12-08T20:37:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/81 "2015-12-09T20:58:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Welcome to the SDMB. Stop by one or more of the gun control threads in GD, if you get a chance. You might learn how we debate around here. Debate implies I would be willing to listen to the arguments of the other side. I am not. Guns are bad. We need to get rid of them. Anyone who thinks differently has flawed mental processes. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/82 "2015-12-09T21:05:06Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Debate implies I would be willing to listen to the arguments of the other side. I am not. Guns are bad. We need to get rid of them. Anyone who thinks differently has flawed mental processes. Okay, if your beliefs can’t stand up to reasonable challenges, they must not be very well founded. As a result of this thread, I am slightly more pro-gun-ownership than I was before reading it, just because it’s made me associate the anti-gun side with fingers-in-their-ears I-insist-I’m-right-because-I-said-so type of people. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/83 "2015-12-09T21:06:56Z")
Are you actually going to respond to any of the questions you’ve been asked here, or are you just here to haughtily bellow your wisdom at us? ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/84 "2015-12-09T21:07:06Z")
People who think it makes sense that having more lethal weapons around is good for society need to hear that they’re delusional. There’s way too much pussyfooting around that going on. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/85 "2015-12-09T21:08:55Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Okay, if your beliefs can’t stand up to reasonable challenges, they must not be very well founded. > > As a result of this thread, I am slightly more pro-gun-ownership than I was before reading it, just because it’s made me associate the anti-gun side with fingers-in-their-ears I-insist-I’m-right-because-I-said-so type of people. you should see the gun control thread over at Ars Technica. it’s gone around in circles so many times, Superman was able to rescue Lois Lane from the earthquake. > [@iljitsch](#): > > People who think it makes sense that having more lethal weapons around is good for society need to hear that they’re delusional. There’s way too much pussyfooting around that going on. I’m glad you’re accomplishing so much by yelling your opinions to people on a little-known message board. Your arrogance is so endearing people will flock to your point of view. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/86 "2015-12-09T21:10:20Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Are you actually going to respond to any of the questions you’ve been asked here I’ll be glad to answer any questions when doing so will be helpful. I’ll ignore the ones that lead down unproductive rabbit holes. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/87 "2015-12-09T21:14:11Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I’m glad you’re accomplishing so much by yelling your opinions to people on a little-known message board. Your arrogance is so endearing people will flock to your point of view. Someone is being defensive. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/88 "2015-12-09T21:17:45Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Debate implies I would be willing to listen to the arguments of the other side. I am not. Yes, we figured that out too. > [@](#): > > Guns are bad. We need to get rid of them. Anyone who thinks differently has flawed mental processes. Again, welcome to the SDMB. Also, good-bye. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/89 "2015-12-09T21:20:11Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Someone is being defensive. you’ve called people “delusional” and said they have “flawed mental processes,” stated clearly you don’t want to hear what anyone has to say because you already know it’s wrong, and outright refuse to answer questions that might help clarify your point of view. What else do you expect? If I invite you into my backyard and you proceed to piss in my swimming pool, is it “defensive” if I tell you to leave? you should stay at Ars. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/90 "2015-12-09T21:21:51Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > People who think it makes sense that having more lethal weapons around is good for society need to hear that they’re delusional. There’s way too much pussyfooting around that going on. I think it makes sense for society. Are you calling me delusional? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/91 "2015-12-09T21:23:57Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Debate implies I would be willing to listen to the arguments of the other side. I am not. Guns are bad. We need to get rid of them. Anyone who thinks differently has flawed mental processes. Come take them. Since you won’t have a gun your chance of success is very very low. See you think words trump real force. That’s the flawed mental process. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/92 "2015-12-09T21:24:48Z")
Right, so the people who insist on bringing the evil scourge of gun ownership into the world, or at least defending the status quo shouldn’t be made to feel bad about being co-responsible for thousands of deaths every year because that would be impolite? This is life or death. If you are on the wrong side of this then being labeled delusional means being given the benefit of the doubt. The alternative is that you’re deliberately being evil. Any questions at this time? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/93 "2015-12-09T21:24:51Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > There are people who don’t own guns who still support gun ownership for others. Your statement is disparaging to those people. I’m willing to allow that it may have been unintentional. I don’t own guns because I’m not an enthusiast, and I think that being an enthusiast - that is, someone who is passionate enough about guns to study how to safely use one, and makes it a point to regularly practice at a range so as to maintain proficiency (not just in shooting accuracy, but in safe handling when not actively firing) - is necessary to be a responsible firearm owner/user. I’ve certainly shot my share of guns before, .22 rifles at Boy Scout summer camp, pistol/rifle marksmanship classes as a college freshman, and a couple of entertaining evenings at an indoor range with a friend who was a gun owner - but I’m just not interested enough to go to a range regularly; I would be hard pressed to maintain the proficiency needed to safely handle a gun during a confrontation. As it happens, I live in an area with a very low violent crime rate, so I’m willing to accept the (very low) risk of home invasion without having a gun in the house. Private gun ownership being legal here, it may well be that the risk of violent crime is as low as it is because bad guys think I _might_ have a gun. I think that’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/94 "2015-12-09T21:27:02Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Any questions at this time? yes. when are you leaving? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/95 "2015-12-09T21:29:09Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > The alternative is that you’re deliberately being evil. > > Any questions at this time? Yes. Are you calling me evil or delusional because I encourage and support wide spread gun ownership and carry? ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/96 "2015-12-09T21:31:39Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > yes. > > when are you leaving? You see, that’s a question that doesn’t help our nice little non-discussion. But since I invited questions, I’ll answer it truthfully: I don’t know, but not planning on leaving any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/97 "2015-12-09T21:32:01Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Right, so the people who insist on bringing the evil scourge of gun ownership into the world, or at least defending the status quo shouldn’t be made to feel bad about being co-responsible for thousands of deaths every year because that would be impolite? > > This is life or death. If you are on the wrong side of this then being labeled delusional means being given the benefit of the doubt. The alternative is that you’re deliberately being evil. > > Any questions at this time? What if your well-meant nattering doesn’t make me feel bad? I still have a gun and you do not. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/98 "2015-12-09T21:33:18Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Right, so the people who insist on bringing the evil scourge of gun ownership into the world, or at least defending the status quo shouldn’t be made to feel bad about being co-responsible for thousands of deaths every year because that would be impolite? > > This is life or death. If you are on the wrong side of this then being labeled delusional means being given the benefit of the doubt. The alternative is that you’re deliberately being evil. > > Any questions at this time? I guess I’m evil. Muhahahaha. But you think your opinion matters and you think your approach to change minds works? That’s delusional. You also deliberately ignore or have never been educated about history. People working as agents of states have killed orders of magnitude, wiki that phrase if you need to, more than regular people. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/99 "2015-12-09T21:33:32Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Yes. Are you calling me evil or delusional because I encourage and support wide spread gun ownership and carry? Yes. You also seem to need a bit of extra time catching on. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/100 "2015-12-09T21:40:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > People working as agents of states have killed orders of magnitude Do these agents of states ever decide against that when their intended targets are armed? Also, who cares what happened in the past? That’s over, we live in the present now and we’ll be living in the future soon enough. If we start reducing the number of guns out there, then at some point in the future fewer people will die unnecessarily. It won’t be possible to get there overnight, but a good start would be to get rid of the type of guns and ammo that allow a single person to keep shooting at such a high rate that they’re basically unstoppable. Guns with a small magazine that takes significant time to reload are still bad, but orders of magnitude less so, so we can worry about those at some later date. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849.md?page=6)