# Why do so many Americans feel they need tools for killing people? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849 "2015-12-08T20:37:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/121 "2015-12-10T16:57:06Z")
> [@](#): > > I happen to be a US citizen who lives in Australia. It’s better. I don’t hear guns going off at night and wonder who just shot his wife or brother in law over whose turn it was to do the dishes. I live in the US and don’t hear those things either. I swear, the water supply in Australia must be contaminated with heavy metals. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/122 "2015-12-10T16:59:17Z")
A one-time co-worker once held off an intruder in his home with a putter. I would not advise anyone else to do this. Underclubbing can be hazardous. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/123 "2015-12-10T17:03:59Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > A one-time co-worker once held off an intruder in his home with a putter. > > I would not advise anyone else to do this. Underclubbing can be hazardous. _:golf clap:_ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/124 "2015-12-10T17:15:20Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I live in the US and don’t hear those things either. > > I swear, the water supply in Australia must be contaminated with heavy metals. I lived in Lansing, and I did. As to water supply, I’ll compare Brisbane’s, with, say, Flint’s, any old time. Must suck living in Michigan, glad I got out. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/125 "2015-12-10T17:18:12Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Must suck living in Michigan, glad I got out. I expect the people of Michigan are glad, too. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/126 "2015-12-10T17:19:34Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Do they actually want to kill people? Well, there’s the occasional impulse, but I’ve successfully resisted it for 30+ years. But you never know what may happen tomorrow. 😉 > [@iljitsch](#): > > Don’t they realize that statistically, a gun is more likely to kill its owner than anyone else? Kellerman again? Seriously?! My family has been gun owners for generations; are we cheating death? Beating the odds? Or is Kellerman’s analysis flawed? > [@iljitsch](#): > > Reading comprehension: they’re called “assault weapons” for a reason. Because someone coined the phrase in the early/mid 80’s iirc. Before then it had no legal (Constitutional, historical) or statutory meaning. > [@iljitsch](#): > > How does it make sense that people who aren’t allowed to fly can buy guns legally? Because the no-fly list is a fucking regulatory/bureaucratic nightmare with 4-year old kids on it due to their having similar names to other no-fly listees? Because the legal framework (and thus the necessary government database cross-linking) doesn’t exists due to privacy and due-process considerations that violate people’s rights? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/127 "2015-12-10T17:25:38Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Kellerman again? Seriously?! My family has been gun owners for generations; are we cheating death? Beating the odds? Or is Kellerman’s analysis flawed? I think you are confusing the meaning of “the odds are 2.7 times greater” with “it’s 100% guaranteed that everyone will”. Besides that, the OP said nothing about Kellermann. How do you know he or she wasn’t referencing one of the multiple different studies that have found similar results to Kellermann? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/128 "2015-12-10T17:30:05Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I think you are confusing the meaning of “the odds are 2.7 times greater” with “it’s 100% guaranteed that everyone will”. > > Besides that, the OP said nothing about Kellermann. How do you know he or she wasn’t referencing one of the multiple different studies that have found similar results to Kellermann? What are the odds before they are 2.7 greater? If I buy two lotto tickets, I double my chances of winning, but the odds are still overwhelmingly against my winning. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/129 "2015-12-10T17:40:14Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Hey, at least we know how to bath and don’t go to gatherings smelling like a skunk that just shit on itself. But do you know how to _spell_? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/130 "2015-12-10T17:45:01Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > What are the odds before they are 2.7 greater? If I buy two lotto tickets, I double my chances of winning, but the odds are still overwhelmingly against my winning. Right, but it doesn’t matter. Remember, the reason a lot of these people are buying the guns in the first place is safety. It doesn’t matter if it raises the miniscule chance of X happening by just 2%; they’re expecting it to _lower_ the miniscule chance of X happening. Because beyond that, there’s not a whole lot of upside to the expensive, dangerous purchase. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/131 "2015-12-10T17:50:43Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Because beyond that, there’s not a whole lot of upside to the expensive, dangerous purchase. I disagree. Outside of their value in self-defense, my guns have brought me a great deal of enjoyment from target shooting, hunting, and pissing off antis. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/132 "2015-12-10T17:55:09Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > It isn’t all Europeans. Just the ones at this board. Same with Canadians. The Europeans will probably never get over the trauma inflicted when we had to make and transport a bazillion guns and gun platforms to their side of the planet for killing Germans and Italians. Canadians probably resent getting drug along for ride. Get over it. Personally, in answer to OP’s original question, firearms are one of those type tools that is actually fun to practice with. That gives a distinct edge to the good folks who own and use them responsibly, should their primarily-intended application ever come into play. Aside: The Japanese don’t even argue about it. Wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/133 "2015-12-10T18:00:28Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > What are the odds before they are 2.7 greater? If I buy two lotto tickets, I double my chances of winning, but the odds are still overwhelmingly against my winning. The comparison is to people who don’t have a gun in the house. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/134 "2015-12-10T18:07:15Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The comparison is to people who don’t have a gun in the house. Yes, I know that. What are that person’s odds? Telling me that my odds are 2.7 times greater than his because I have a gun in the house is, at best, useless if I don’t know what his odds were. By having a gun in the house is my survival each day a coin flip? By having a gun in the house have my odds increased to where they now equal my chances of being struck by a meteorite? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/135 "2015-12-10T18:45:28Z")
Hoo-boy, where to begin: > [@iljitsch](#): > > 1. Do they actually want to kill people? > > 2. Don’t they realize that statistically, a gun is more likely to kill its owner than anyone else? > > 3. Reading comprehension: they’re called “assault weapons” for a reason. > > 4. How does it make sense that people who aren’t allowed to fly can buy guns legally? 1. Not as long as they’re left the choice. 2. There’s the old saying “Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics”. See [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=770740) for that debate. 3. Because gun banners wanted to create a blanket ban for disparate firearms they thought looked scary. They couldn’t come up with an objective standard, they ended up having to write a list and saying “anything on this list is an assault weapon”. 4. The no-fly list is already infamous for its arbitrariness and lack of reason. It’s bureaucracy gone mad. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/136 "2015-12-10T18:47:11Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Debate implies I would be willing to listen to the arguments of the other side. I am not. Guns are bad. We need to get rid of them. Anyone who thinks differently has flawed mental processes. The only thing worse than a gun is someone else having one when you don’t Anyway I see further comment is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/137 "2015-12-10T18:51:10Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > hardly. John Oliver has made a career out of it. John Oliver the comedian? He gets paid to tell jokes. Jokes his employers like. His show is entertaining but you have to understand that he can’t be held to the same standards of truth/fact as a non-comedian. _I’m a comedian. I was telling a joke. Not all of my jokes are funny but they were meant to be funny. Sometimes people don’t laugh. You can’t sue me for slander, I’m a comedian._ ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/138 "2015-12-10T19:01:05Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > People who think it makes sense that having more lethal weapons around is good for society need to hear that they’re delusional. There’s way too much pussyfooting around that going on. Maybe you should put your shoes on? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/139 "2015-12-10T19:05:08Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > John Oliver the comedian? He gets paid to tell jokes. Jokes his employers like. His show is entertaining but you have to understand that he can’t be held to the same standards of truth/fact as a non-comedian. _I’m a comedian. I was telling a joke. Not all of my jokes are funny but they were meant to be funny. Sometimes people don’t laugh. You can’t sue me for slander, I’m a comedian._ Which is what makes it _super_ depressing that his segments are more informative, accurate, and generally all-around _better_ than competitors at, say, FOX News. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/140 "2015-12-10T19:10:22Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > …When you start with the notion that having a gun is a good idea, you can rationalize until it makes sense. If you don’t start from that point, there’s no reasonable way to get there. (post shortened) You don’t have the votes to repeal the 2nd Amendment. Thanks for playing. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849.md?page=8)