# Why do so many Americans feel they need tools for killing people? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849 "2015-12-08T20:37:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/141 "2015-12-10T19:15:02Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Which is what makes it _super_ depressing that his segments are more informative, accurate, and generally all-around _better_ than competitors at, say, FOX News. Competitors? You mean SNL? Daniel Tosh? Jeff Dunham? Cheech and Chong? Al Sharpton? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/142 "2015-12-10T19:20:34Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Yes, I know that. What are that person’s odds? Telling me that my odds are 2.7 times greater than his because I have a gun in the house is, at best, useless if I don’t know what his odds were. By having a gun in the house is my survival each day a coin flip? By having a gun in the house have my odds increased to where they now equal my chances of being struck by a meteorite? This reminds me of the recent news that eating a serving of cured meat every day increases your risk of colon cancer by 18%. That sounds much scarier than saying your absolute risk of colon cancer increases from 5% (for eating no cured meat ever) up to 6% (for eating cured meat every day). Please pass the sausage. and the ammunition. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/143 "2015-12-10T19:55:11Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Yes, I know that. What are that person’s odds? Telling me that my odds are 2.7 times greater than his because I have a gun in the house is, at best, useless if I don’t know what his odds were. By having a gun in the house is my survival each day a coin flip? By having a gun in the house have my odds increased to where they now equal my chances of being struck by a meteorite? I don’t think you’re getting this. The odds ratio associated with the presence of a gun in the home is 2.7. That compares to an odds ratio of 1.0 for the contrast group (not having a gun in the home). The increased odds (e.g., 2.7) is independent of all other factors controlled in the model. So, whatever increase in the odds of having a homicide in the home you have accrued from any other risk factors, such as the neighborhood you live in, having a history of domestic violence in the household, engaging in illicit drug use, having a criminal history (whatever factors were controlled in a particular study), you are more than doubling them when you have a gun in the house. Getting hit by a meteorite is not a risk factor for a homicide in the house, as far as I can discern. However, whatever the increased odds of homicide associated with that, yours are at least 2.7 times what mine are (presuming you have a firearm in the home). ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/144 "2015-12-10T20:16:59Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > When gays were getting stomped, I don’t remember seeing you there. Not a single nerdy white guy with his NRA button on his trilby was captured on celluloid during the Stonewall Riots. I was too young for Stonewall, but I have been an instructor for the local chapter of Pink Pistols - and I am a pasty white, straight, libertarian gun owner. See, there are some gays that see guns as a good way to protect themselves from the bashers. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/145 "2015-12-10T20:51:45Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I don’t think you’re getting this. > > The odds ratio associated with the presence of a gun in the home is 2.7. That compares to an odds ratio of 1.0 for the contrast group (not having a gun in the home). > > The increased odds (e.g., 2.7) is independent of all other factors controlled in the model. > > So, whatever increase in the odds of having a homicide in the home you have accrued from any other risk factors, such as the neighborhood you live in, having a history of domestic violence in the household, engaging in illicit drug use, having a criminal history (whatever factors were controlled in a particular study), you are more than doubling them when you have a gun in the house. > > Getting hit by a meteorite is not a risk factor for a homicide in the house, as far as I can discern. However, whatever the increased odds of homicide associated with that, yours are at least 2.7 times what mine are (presuming you have a firearm in the home). I don’t think you get what I am saying. I don’t give a crap about 2.7x as part of your ongoing statiscal terminology jerking-off. We know. You’re a scientist. We also know you relentlessly obfuscate and misrepresent. What I care about is realistic risk assessment in the real world. How likely is a person who doesn’t have a gun in his house to be murdered with a gun (or anything else for that matter)? How does my likelyhood of being murdered compare to his if I do have a gun in the house? Don’t lecture me again about statistics, shit-wit. I had plenty of schooling of my own in it at undergrad and grad levels. If you can’t plainly answer my question, just stfu. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/146 "2015-12-10T21:20:43Z")
When I Wikipedia [defensive gun use](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use) I run across this below… > [@](#): > > _Lower end estimates include that by David Hemenway, a professor of Health Policy at the Harvard School of Public Health, show approximately 55,000-80,000 such uses each year.[8][9]_ That’s the same guy often cited by gun control advocates. Using his most conservative estimate there are five times as many defensive gun uses than gun homicides in the US. How does that reconcile with the 2.7x figure that’s been cited and quarreled over in the last several gun threads? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/147 "2015-12-10T22:34:17Z")
To answer the thread title; “Because too many people need killing and I’m probably one of them.” ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/148 "2015-12-10T22:44:16Z")
I own guns because I like guns. I apply this same logic to almost everything that I own. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/150 "2015-12-10T23:39:05Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I don’t think you get what I am saying. I don’t give a crap about 2.7x as part of your ongoing statiscal terminology jerking-off. We know. You’re a scientist. We also know you relentlessly obfuscate and misrepresent. What I care about is realistic risk assessment in the real world. How likely is a person who doesn’t have a gun in his house to be murdered with a gun (or anything else for that matter)? How does my likelyhood of being murdered compare to his if I do have a gun in the house? Don’t lecture me again about statistics, shit-wit. I had plenty of schooling of my own in it at undergrad and grad levels. If you can’t plainly answer my question, just stfu. Fuck off, douchebag. Your schooling was apparently for shit. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/151 "2015-12-11T03:27:35Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > How else are they going to fight back when the jackbooted thugs come to take their liberties away? > > In all seriousness, that’s the literal reason the Second Amendment was added to the Constitution. That makes it a fundamental principle of the American political system: the people have a right to stockpile weapons in preparation for an armed uprising. Um, not really. George Washington put down\* two \*such armed uprisings. The Constitution as written is not _actually_ an agreement to let the next bunch of crazy white men who get organized enough overthrow the state and install their own ruling elite. Unfortunately we have behaved as if it were. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/152 "2015-12-11T03:31:35Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Fuck off, douchebag. Your schooling was apparently for shit. Classy. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/153 "2015-12-11T05:30:13Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Like you peckerwoods listen to Americans who disagree with you. > > I happen to be a US citizen who lives in Australia. It’s _better_. I don’t hear guns going off at night and wonder who just shot his wife or brother in law over whose turn it was to do the dishes. > > You shitheels don’t even understand that Constitution you keep jerking on. The founders of the United States were hard-bitten revolutionaries who had no great respect for the common man-- hence the Electoral College. Yet you history-illiterate dogfuckers reckon Madison and Washington would have conversations like: > > Madison: I say, George, don’t you think we should totally allow for a counter-revolution should the unwashed care to overthrow us? > > Washington: LOL sure whatever > > No, dickheads. They thought _standing armies_ were fucking dangerous to them. As in, duh, military coups. Plus I think they were pressed for cash and, really, had no credible local enemies. Hence, militias. > > Not that they had a good opinion of militias. They had actually seen how shit militias were in battle. That’s why the following vignette has verisimilitude: > > Madison: I say, George, would you mind if we equipped militias with firearms? You might have to face them on the battlefield someday. > > Washington: LOL sure whatever > > Militias, in actual practice, and post Revolution, were used to put down rebellions. Some of you probably dimly remember Shays’ Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion from when you went to school in the 50s. They taught history back then, right? Mitilias put them both down. The well regulated militia, which is the half of the 2nd Am. that you dickface assfucks always forget, was an arm of the government, used to rub out tax protestors. Duh. > > And then, AND THEN, you fucking fools think that militias, as in unformed armed mobs of clowns like yourselves, would be a check on tyranny. What fucking tyranny have you stopped with your gun? What fucking tyranny have you stopped, ever? Like you’d put your fat ass on the line for anything but your own fat white ass at this late date. Hey, that’s cool, I’m chickenshit too, but I don’t buy a gun and pretend I’M SAVING FUCKING DEMOCRACY AS A PRIVATE CITIZEN WITH IT. > > Any of you feel like stopping tyranny, just step right up to the treason bar, drink up and see what it gets you. Seeing how you’re old white dudes, maybe you just get a talking to, real gentle like. [Maybe not.](http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2013/04/18/1226623/466808-waco-davidians.jpg) > > When gays were getting stomped, I don’t remember seeing you there. Not a single nerdy white guy with his NRA button on his trilby was captured on celluloid during the Stonewall Riots. When migrant laborers were getting their heads cracked for starting the UFW, I don’t remember you and Cletus getting your shootin’ irons and making a show of solidarity. And in all the Civil Rights movement, I don’t recall ever seeing a motherfucking one of your ilk guarding freedom riders. > > But I sure as fuck remember MLK and Medgar Evers getting their asses capped by assholes with guns. SURELY MUST’VE BEEN PREVENTING SOME TYRANNY THERE, RIGHT BOYS? Have you found your meds? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/154 "2015-12-11T07:20:08Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Fuck off, douchebag. Your schooling was apparently for shit. I’ll accept this as the best attempt at shutting tfu your ego permits. I knew a plain answer wasn’t happening. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/155 "2015-12-11T10:59:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Have you found your meds? LOL sure whatever, you couch-ridden dickless troglodyte. You have no argument beyond DERP DERP LIBERALS=WRONG. You’re the cancer on the soul of a nation that once was a lamp to the world, you’re the pox Americana. You’re the ignorant horselaugh denoting a grand vacancy, you’re a gash on the face of Liberty. You’re a boot in a protester’s crotch, you’re a fart in a jar that once held hope. You’re a mosquito, a speed bump on the road to progress. This is the most attention you’ll get, no matter how hard you troll. Hope you’re happy, stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/156 "2015-12-11T11:14:22Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I’ll accept this as the best attempt at shutting tfu your ego permits. I knew a plain answer wasn’t happening. And then there’s you, you half fuck. Hentor takes the time to explain BASIC BUSINESS LEVEL STATS to your dumb fucking ass, and you’re like HERP DERP TIME TO FUCKING CALL SCIENCE A LIAR. You don’t know history, you don’t know law, you don’t know stats, all you know is that you like guns so GUNS=HARMLESS. You blind bastard. You’re foul, too. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/157 "2015-12-11T11:20:06Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > And then there’s you, you half fuck. Hentor takes the time to explain BASIC BUSINESS LEVEL STATS to your dumb fucking ass, and you’re like HERP DERP TIME TO FUCKING CALL SCIENCE A LIAR. You don’t know history, you don’t know law, you don’t know stats, all you know is that you like guns so GUNS=HARMLESS. You blind bastard. You’re foul, too. Did you have any point other than, perhaps, making us feel guilty for dumping an angry retard on the Aussies? ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/158 "2015-12-11T11:21:14Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Did you have any point other than, perhaps, making us feel guilty for dumping an angry retard on the Aussies? omg he pointed out that i have no game i better say he has no point ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/159 "2015-12-11T11:31:22Z")
No, you don’t. You have no place even in the argument. You left the US for Australia and frothed some upthread about how much better you like it there. You didn’t stay here and work to change things for what you consider better. You got what you wanted by bailing. Your angry retard rantings would have a point if you were part of what is going on here. You aren’t. You’re just a foaming buffoon on the other side of the planet. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/160 "2015-12-11T11:38:49Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > No, you don’t. You have no place even in the argument. You left the US for Australia and frothed some upthread about how much better you like it there. You didn’t stay here and work to change things for what you consider better. You got what you wanted by bailing. Your angry retard rantings would have a point if you were part of what is going on here. You aren’t. You’re just a foaming buffoon on the other side of the planet. Oh word? Let us see your righteous facts, then. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849/161 "2015-12-11T12:23:31Z")
I can appreciate that dipshits have to sleep and run out of duh, so I’m throwing this open to anybody. Scummy ran out of piss once I asked for facts, apparently. Where are your facts? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-americans-feel-they-need-tools-for-killing-people/739849.md?page=9)