# Why do so many Canadians feel like they have to compare the US and Canada? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 15, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754 "2010-11-15T17:07:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tingbudong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tingbudong/32/520_2.png) [@tingbudong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tingbudong)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/21 "2010-11-16T00:55:33Z")
Agree with many of the previous posters. A good chunk of Canadian _popular_ nationalism is rooted in comparisons to the USA. We also suffer from a dated and stubborn attachment to the UK and inconsistencies regarding our national narrative. Every Canadian should read John Ralston Sauls _[A Fair Country](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ralston_Saul#A_Fair_Country)_. ---
**Author:** ![catastrophe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@catastrophe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catastrophe)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/22 "2010-11-16T01:31:38Z")
Huh, I haven’t had had the same experience as the OP. Usually the conversation goes something like, “You’re from California? And you moved to Toronto?? Why on earth would you do that???” Maybe, because I live here, people just assume I’ve bought into the whole Canadian superiority thing. (It’s kind of true!). ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/23 "2010-11-16T01:41:12Z")
Will Ferguson, “Why I Hate Canadian’s” This Canadian recommends it highly, very educational. And hey, I’ve been that person saying, “Why’d you move here?” To a Colombian immigrant. I was just surprised that someone from South America wouldn’t see the USA as the _ **only** _ place worth struggling to immigrate to. Her response was that having come from Colombia she found the American gun culture too much like home. Then she said, “Canada doesn’t do any evil in the world.” I’m not sure that’s entirely true, but I understood the sentiment at least. No matter where you go in the world, what your nationality, it’s interesting to both field questions about your own land, and to share your view of someone else’s land. I always find it interesting to talk to persons just visiting Canada. You kind of get to see through someone else’s eyes, briefly. Whether the view is favourable or not, well, that can’t be helped. It’s still interesting. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/24 "2010-11-16T01:51:45Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Outside of conservative talk radio, Fox News, and glurgey country music, is there really that much “AMERICA IS NUMBER ONE!!!1!!!” chest-thumping going on in the media, as so many claim? I really don’t see it. In fact, I encounter the opposite; the nation’s faults are on open display for all to see, and they’re presented front and center in the news. I don’t ever watch Fox News (don’t even have the channel) and yes, it’s really there when you’re looking for it (which this thread is making me do, which makes me look more defensive, which is the root of the OP…vicious circle!) Yes, your faults are on open display, but they are nearly _always_ couched in terminology along the lines of “because we are the land of the free!”, or “because we are the best country in the world”, or similar. It’s almost as if, if your politicians _didn’t_ say it, they’d be considered to be “less American” than another one. How many “Obama hates America!” and “The Republicans want to destroy America!” ad campaigns are there? They are all based on the idea that your country is The.Best.Thing.EVAR!.And.If.You.Don’t.Agree.With.Me.You.Aren’t.A.Real.American.And.You.Hate.America! This attitude has been greatly amplified in the past decade or so, but that’s the context of this thread, isn’t it? This attitude is really there, and not just in politics. I think a lot of the time Americans (and Canadians, really…it’s not like it’s actually something that bothers me much) tune it out, but when it comes up in conversation, it’s really there. > [@](#): > > When I cross the border, I see far more “We’re number one!” chest-thumping and national symbolism on the Canadian side than on the US side. Sure, Americans fly flags on Independence Day, but the maple leaf is incorporated into the logo of practically every other business west of the Niagara River. Yes, we do put the maple leaf in our logos, because unfortunately(?) the default assumption is that a large corporation is American unless we are told otherwise. That’s how successful you’ve been in selling us stuff, in entering our markets and establishing corporate presences here. Good for you, but once in a while it’s nice to know that our little country has done things too. For American companies like Wendy’s and McDonald’s, it’s an appeal to the citizens; just advertising. Besides, the maple leaf has a simple design which can fit into all sorts of advertising, so why not include it in order to appeal to the “little brother”? And the idea that Americans only fly the flag on Independence day is funny to me - your flag is everywhere, but again, I don’t think you notice it, just as I’m sure I don’t notice a lot of the Canadian cliché stuff. Also, keep in mind that the past few years led up to this year’s Olympics - there’s a pride/nationalistic effect that came with Vancouver winning that and successfully having them, so our Canadiana is a little amplified right now. > [@](#): > > If some celebrity dies, the tributes go on and on about how Canadian they were; something you don’t see here except maybe for the likes of John Wayne. Compare the [obit for Ernie Coombs](http://www.obituariestoday.com/Obituaries/ObitShow.php?Obituary_ID=27237) (who was actually born in the US) with that of [Fred Rogers](http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/20030228rogersae1p1.asp). Which one is more nationalistic? Which one mentions the subject’s country the most? Because, again, we are so awash in American tv, movies, music, theatre, pop culture, etc, that if we _don’t_ say that someone is Canadian, _the default assumption is that they are American_. You don’t have that issue, but if all your greatest artists/pop stars started died and people constantly mistook them for being Canadian, it would annoy you sooner or later. You’d start pointing out that _no, he’s not from Moose Jaw, he’s from Boise!_ > [@](#): > > Canadians visitors to Buffalo don’t have the best reputation. They often come across as being smug, and often criticize or making fun of the city to our faces. The tired old comments about Irv Weinstein and fires are still being dragged out. It’s not the most endearing trait of an otherwise fine people. Do you happen to know what proportion of those visitors are from the GTA/Southern Ontario (Hamilton, St.Catherines)? If it’s the majority, then I’d WAG that there’s a regional competition going on - “border” cities compete for jobs, and share economies in a way that Hamilton doesn’t with, say, Boise. So a “Ha! I’ve lost my job too, but at least my house is nicer!” attitude might not be unexpected. That’s just a total WAG, though, and I don’t really know how much of an impact that has, if at all. It’s too bad that you see Canadian tourists in that light, but I remember when I lived in the Hammer, people often complained about American tourists being the same way. I think it goes back to the “little brother” thing, though. As I said at the start of the post, you get into a vicious circle, because sooner or later someone makes a comment like the ones in the OP, and in the end, everyone walks away wondering why Americans are so obnoxious and why Canadians are so defensive. ---
**Author:** ![JpnDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@JpnDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JpnDude)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/25 "2010-11-16T05:23:28Z")
In my experiences living and travelling around Asia, it’s been common to see Canadian tourists have a Canadian flag patch/sticker on their backpacks/luggage. I’ve also seen Aussies and New Zealanders with their respective flag patches and stickers. ---
**Author:** ![tingbudong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tingbudong/32/520_2.png) [@tingbudong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tingbudong)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/26 "2010-11-16T07:11:29Z")
RE: Flags on packs… The rationale for the maple flags usually falls into two categories. 1. I don’t want to be mistaken for an American 2. I love Canada so much! I wouldn’t be caught dead with a flag on my pack. Nothing says I’m a newbie, insecure traveler like slapping a flag on a backpack. I like to keep a bit of anonymity when I’m exploring places. If folks ask…sure, I’ll tell them, but I don’t feel the need to advertise my nationality. I’ve traveled and trekked quite a few places around the world (including some rougher locales)…often in the company of Americans. The only problem I’ve ever encountered regarding nationality was actually from another traveler. Not one issue from locals. To be honest…in eyes of the international budget backpack travel industry…everyone is essentially just a western tourist with cash to burn. Nationalities in most cases are moot. You are all pretty much going to be treated the same way (and usually that is based on your behavior). ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/27 "2010-11-16T14:13:53Z")
> [@JpnDude](#): > > In my experiences living and travelling around Asia, it’s been common to see Canadian tourists have a Canadian flag patch/sticker on their backpacks/luggage. I’ve also seen Aussies and New Zealanders with their respective flag patches and stickers. I’ve heard, but cannot confirm, that it’s also common to see _American_ tourists with a Canadian flag patch or sticker on their packs! I don’t know how common it really is, but I know I’ve met a few in Germany and France! Whether or not it’s true, there seems to be a pretty common idea that Canadians are treated better overseas, and I’ve met at least a couple of Americans who decided to try it. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/28 "2010-11-16T14:27:25Z")
> [@tingbudong](#): > > I wouldn’t be caught dead with a flag on my pack. Nothing says I’m a newbie, insecure traveler like slapping a flag on a backpack. I bought a name tag for my luggage… and the only one I found that was in leather has a maple leaf with “Canada” printed on it. Honestly, I would have preferred something more neutral that’s both classier and doesn’t make me feel like I’m making a political statement. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/29 "2010-11-16T14:47:52Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Outside of conservative talk radio, Fox News, and glurgey country music, is there really that much “AMERICA IS NUMBER ONE!!!1!!!” chest-thumping going on in the media, as so many claim? I really don’t see it. In fact, I encounter the opposite; the nation’s faults are on open display for all to see, and they’re presented front and center in the news. > > When I cross the border, I see far more “We’re number one!” chest-thumping and national symbolism on the Canadian side than on the US side. Sure, Americans fly flags on Independence Day, but the maple leaf is incorporated into the logo of practically every other business west of the Niagara River. If some celebrity dies, the tributes go on and on about how Canadian they were; something you don’t see here except maybe for the likes of John Wayne. Compare the [obit for Ernie Coombs](http://www.obituariestoday.com/Obituaries/ObitShow.php?Obituary_ID=27237) (who was actually born in the US) with that of [Fred Rogers](http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/20030228rogersae1p1.asp). Which one is more nationalistic? Which one mentions the subject’s country the most? > > Canadians visitors to Buffalo don’t have the best reputation. They often come across as being smug, and often criticize or making fun of the city to our faces. The tired old comments about Irv Weinstein and fires are still being dragged out. It’s not the most endearing trait of an otherwise fine people. A fair amount of this, on both sides, is simple confirmation bias. Every country has its rabid nationalists; they tend to be less visible to one’s fellow-countrymen than the other guy’s - who are, inevitably, the more jarring. Hence, the odd phenom of Americans claiming that American patriotism and exceptionalism isn’t really a big deal (which would be met with incredulity in much of the rest of the world). As for Buffalo - it suffers by being in the odd position of a relatively minor city of the by-far-more-significant country, near to a major urban centre of the more-minor country. Visitors to Buffalo are likely to be from the GTA - what you see is partly small-town vs. big-town dynamics. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/30 "2010-11-16T16:07:53Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > I’ve heard, but cannot confirm, that it’s also common to see _American_ tourists with a Canadian flag patch or sticker on their packs! I don’t know how common it really is, but I know I’ve met a few in Germany and France! Whether or not it’s true, there seems to be a pretty common idea that Canadians are treated better overseas, and I’ve met at least a couple of Americans who decided to try it. As an American, I’ve never been treated substandardly in Europe or Mexico versus any typical Canadian tourist. So far, no one’s ever proclaimed that being (or pretending to be) Canadian results in, say, free fellatio from hotel staffs. For the most part, people everywhere else in the world are like us. Would you expect to treat someone badly in the USA because you found out he was from Northern Ireland instead of Ireland? ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/31 "2010-11-16T16:22:57Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > As an American, I’ve never been treated substandardly in Europe or Mexico versus any typical Canadian tourist. So far, no one’s ever proclaimed that being (or pretending to be) Canadian results in, say, free fellatio from hotel staffs. For the most part, people everywhere else in the world are like us. Would you expect to treat someone badly in the USA because you found out he was from Northern Ireland instead of Ireland? No, of course not. I’m not saying Americans _are_ treated differently overseas. I’m saying (some) American travellers _believe_ they’ll be treated differently overseas, leading them to choose to travel under a Canadian flag on the _belief_ that it might make a difference. I know from my personal experiences that Canadians are generally well liked in Europe, in part because of our role in some areas in WWII (the Dutch love us!), in part because we are a tiny country (population-wise) that never really hurt anyone, and because of the stereotype that we are quiet, polite, respectful people while Americans are loud, brash, obnoxious, and an influential world power. It’s about perception, but whether it’s actually true is a whole other matter. For the record, I don’t think it is true at all (other than perhaps the world power/influential issue!) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/32 "2010-11-16T17:08:20Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Whether or not it’s true, there seems to be a pretty common idea that Canadians are treated better overseas, and I’ve met at least a couple of Americans who decided to try it. Back in the seventies, when I travelled Europe, I experienced numerous encounters of American bashing once my counterpart in conversation learned that I was Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/33 "2010-11-16T17:08:46Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > I know from my personal experiences that Canadians are generally well liked in Europe, in part because of our role in some areas in WWII (the Dutch love us!), in part because we are a tiny country (population-wise) that never really hurt anyone, and because of the stereotype that we are quiet, polite, respectful people while Americans are loud, brash, obnoxious, and an influential world power. All the same from personal experience, _most_ Americans are well liked in Europe, too. Sure, you get the boorish Merkins, but like you indicate, the actual differences are a stereotype rather than the real truth! As for the Dutch, they’re great people. After all, _we_ liberated France and all they do is thumb their noses at us! (In reality, once you get outside of Paris, the French are great people and should be counted amongst our closest friends.) ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/34 "2010-11-16T17:44:44Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Back in the seventies, when I travelled Europe, I experienced numerous encounters of American bashing once my counterpart in conversation learned that I was Canadian. That may be more of an example of tailoring your conversation subjects to what you expect to please your interlocutor. IOW, if you’d told them you were American, maybe you’d have heard about how tiresome Canadians are when they try to compare their country with the US. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/35 "2010-11-16T17:49:16Z")
I have a few American friends who have claimed to be Canadian while traveling. It immediately makes me lose a little respect for them. I’m no flag-waving, “my country right or wrong” type, but it just strikes me as completely lame and pathetic. FWIW, I’ve been to eighteen countries, never hid that I was American, and, AFAICT, never received substandard service or treatment as a result. If someone wants to challenge me about American foreign policy, I can discuss the issue rationally and politely, and maybe change their minds about stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/36 "2010-11-16T20:31:51Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > After all, _we_ liberated France and all they do is thumb their noses at us! In a post about American stereotypes, this statement makes me laugh (I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a joke). I can totally imagine a stereotypical American walking into a shop in Paris, asking for a croissant and then demanding gratitude for the liberation of France and getting all offended when the French tell him to fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/37 "2010-11-16T20:39:15Z")
Canada has to look up America’s ass because America is constantly mooning them. They have to share our business climate and our media culture because we are not only neighbors, but so much bigger and more powerful. I can imagine it was a little different when they were still a British dominion and not yet a commonwealth, but now it’s David and Goliath sharing bunk beds. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/38 "2010-11-16T20:44:36Z")
Yeah, but we’re still on top. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/39 "2010-11-16T22:56:54Z")
Canadian insecurity is really tiring. The US is an overwhelming media influence, the worlds great power and our very close neighbour. They are the big brother we constantly hear about. Canada has a lot going for it, but this is still no excuse for the constant small time propping of Canadian ego. Hari Seldon, that makes me laugh. The CBC has its good moments but their constant need to nurse our inferiority complex is just embarrassing. Both my dad and my stepfather were spitting mad with Radio 2’s switch away from all classical/jazz to “utter crap” (their words). They are both very conservative voters and classical music was the reason they supported CBC. I wondered about your theory myself. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754/40 "2010-11-16T22:58:57Z")
Actually I’m not surprised based on the area you’re visiting Jackknifed especially the GTA. But we’re not all like that. From what I’ve deducted you’re either running into people have an inferiority complex or generally vote left and or a combination of both. Not all lefties are like that up here but from my experience a lot of them are, as well you may find a few right voting Canadians that hold the same views but I can guarantee you there aren’t as many. Don’t get me wrong us right wingers up here aren’t the USA could never do anything wrong lot. I for one was against the 2nd Iraq war from the get go and to think that you haven’t recognized same sex marriage yet a little silly. But I see a lot Canada could adopt from the US that would make Canada a better country. Funny story about your encounter with a stripper complaing about US marijuana laws because last time I checked pot is still illegal up here as well. You lefties down south may have more in common with us right wingers up here after all 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-canadians-feel-like-they-have-to-compare-the-us-and-canada/560754.md?page=3)