# Why do so many lower class white people have poorly defined chins? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005 "2012-04-17T03:16:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/21 "2012-04-17T10:56:03Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Since there is apparently no evidence for the correlation you propose, I would say there is nothing that needs to be explained. “Something I have noticed” doesn’t really provide any basis for discussion. Agree. But I have experienced the same as the OP… people I have noticed with weak chins seem to be members of the lower-class. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/22 "2012-04-17T13:12:53Z")
Inbreeding. It’s the same thing that gives us the sloping foreheads, absence of necks, and unmatched banjo-playing abilities! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/23 "2012-04-17T13:13:57Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > It does exist in some forms. For those of you who can’t visualize what I am talking about, [here is one](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Rs53-MPsJaI/RpM7D266rII/AAAAAAAACGA/fl7rBW_31zs/s400/false%2Bteeth14.jpg&imgrefurl=http://uncleeddiestheorycorner.blogspot.com/2007/07/faces-to-draw-from-katie-rice-auction.html&h=192&w=210&sz=15&tbnid=wU8LujpejOx9RM:&tbnh=84&tbnw=92&zoom=1&docid=FdmQIQyamW4RDM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cuiMT_W2Ncr50gGLptTDCQ&ved=0CCkQ9QEwAQ&dur=9203) as well as [here](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.makemeheal.com/pictures/large/1685&imgrefurl=http://www.makemeheal.com/pictures/botox-restylane-injections/pre-op-weak-chin-p1685&h=520&w=390&sz=59&tbnid=qseYup5ToZEMvM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=68&zoom=1&docid=nEMto7DaI2UjXM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cuiMT_W2Ncr50gGLptTDCQ&ved=0CEcQ9QEwCA&sei=remMT5HFK6b20gH8uLm1CQ&gbv=2) and [here](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.drsimoni.com/faceimage/km.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.drsimoni.com/chin-implant-orange-county.htm&h=244&w=235&sz=17&tbnid=jQhISprZM-ttcM:&tbnh=186&tbnw=179&zoom=1&docid=bvWFh1zdSmT8yM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cuiMT_W2Ncr50gGLptTDCQ&ved=0CCQQ9QEwAA&dur=2617). Is there any evidence that even the 3 samples you showed us are from “white trash” individuals? What you’re seeing may simply be a reflection of poorer people in the US being more prone to obesity, which tends to make the chin look smaller. Otherwise, confirmation bias is almost certainly the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Crab\_Rangoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Crab\_Rangoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crab_Rangoon)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/24 "2012-04-17T13:35:40Z")
Well - I’ll be. I have a weak chin…and I’m white…I guess I must be trash! Who knew? I guess I should burn those degrees I’ve earned and move out of my middle class house and find me a shack to inhabit. Maybe get me a job at the minimart and start up smokin’ and drinkin’ coffee brandy. But…wait a minute! I am of English descent - perhaps that may have just a TEENY bit to do with it. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/25 "2012-04-17T13:42:15Z")
That’s why Og invented beards. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/26 "2012-04-17T13:42:58Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > Inbreeding. It’s the same thing that gives us the sloping foreheads, absence of necks, and unmatched banjo-playing abilities! You forgot beady eyes. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/27 "2012-04-17T13:49:43Z")
As **kombatminipig** said, it’s usually a dental issue. The three photos you posted are people with bad overbites. The fix can range from years of orthodontics to fairly major surgery. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that uncorrected overbites correlate with income. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/28 "2012-04-17T13:53:16Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I sort of associated a weak chin with class non-specific people of English decent. Hmm, the English angle may be part of it. My admittedly unscientific sample is taken from the South and Appalachia where many people, especially the less mobile families tend to be of English, Scottish, and Scots-Irish descent. My informal sample was taken mainly from trailer parks, Wal-Marts, and truck stops in those areas. I was inspired to ask it after “I watched the Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia” last night on Netflix. You can tell that family is as trashy as it gets just by glancing at the faces and I wanted to break down why. ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/29 "2012-04-17T14:23:30Z")
I go with genetics. I’d only heard the term “chinless wonder” applied to English aristocrats, however my mother-in-law also had a weak chin and she was Hungarian. I’ve noticed it among all socio-economic groups in my students. I can’t say I’ve seen it more in poor white people, ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/30 "2012-04-17T14:51:02Z")
> [@Crab\_Rangoon](#): > > Well - I’ll be. I have a weak chin…and I’m white…I guess I must be trash! Who knew? I guess I should burn those degrees I’ve earned and move out of my middle class house and find me a shack to inhabit. > > Maybe get me a job at the minimart and start up smokin’ and drinkin’ coffee brandy. Is coffee brandy coffee with brandy in it, or is it coffee-flavored brandy? If it’s the former, WANT. Oh, I’d take the latter, too, I guess. I haven’t been able to have coffee or alcohol since November, when I found out I was pregnant. I miss them. I am also of English descent and have an overbite (mostly corrected by orthodontics as a kid). Some people in my dad’s family could probably be described as at least rednecks, if not white trash, and they do come from Appalachia. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/31 "2012-04-17T15:00:04Z")
If the phenomenon exists I would assume it has to do with poor dental care. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/32 "2012-04-17T15:11:51Z")
This thread is a fantastic illustration of why we need science. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/33 "2012-04-17T15:14:45Z")
At a guess, poor people in Spain are more likely to have a beak of a nose than poor people in Sweden. Poor people in Sweden are more likely to have an upturned nose than poor people in Spain. This isn’t based on any observations of Spaniards and Swedes involving socioeconomical data; it is merely based on an observation on the sizes and shapes of noses in both countries… ---
**Author:** ![Crab\_Rangoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Crab\_Rangoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crab_Rangoon)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/34 "2012-04-17T15:31:44Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > Is coffee brandy coffee with brandy in it, or is it coffee-flavored brandy? If it’s the former, WANT. Let me try a link (first time trying) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen%27s\_Coffee\_Brandy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen%27s_Coffee_Brandy) The preferred choice of “white trash” in Maine. I particularly like the term “Fat Ass in a Glass” ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/35 "2012-04-17T15:52:05Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > This thread is a fantastic illustration of why we need science. I honestly didn’t know if other people had noticed it or if there was some well-known issue that is documented. That’s why I asked. If I asked a similar question like ‘Why are poor people in the U.S. so damn fat?’, the question would be equally broad and controversial except we know there is a strong correlation between poverty and obesity and science is still working out all the exact details on why that happens. I am sure the people that first documented that correlation started with a simple observation as well. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/36 "2012-04-17T16:11:34Z")
> [@](#): > > You can tell that family is as trashy as it gets just by glancing at the faces I think your answer lies in this sentence. When you think you can tell anything, “by looking at people”, it’s all about you, not them, in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/37 "2012-04-17T16:21:00Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Hmm, the English angle may be part of it. My admittedly unscientific sample is taken from the South and Appalachia where many people, especially the less mobile families tend to be of English, Scottish, and Scots-Irish descent. My informal sample was taken mainly from trailer parks, Wal-Marts, and truck stops in those areas. I was inspired to ask it after “I watched the Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia” last night on Netflix. You can tell that family is as trashy as it gets just by glancing at the faces and I wanted to break down why. This is un-PC subject matter, but your conjecture here resonates with my personal observations in NC and other southern states. On the other hand, it’s hard to look at bone structure in insolation without being influenced by an individual’s clothing, hair, makeup, dental health, facial hair, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/38 "2012-04-17T16:27:02Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I am sure the people that first documented that correlation started with a simple observation as well. You’re missing a small but VITAL step along the way. You don’t go from “observation” to “hypothesized explanation”. You have to do the “make sure my observation is actually objectively correct and real, and not just something in my own head” part. One of my favorite quotes is “science is the fight against common sense”. If there’s one thing we’ve learned over the years, it’s that humans have an amazing ability to spot patterns. The flip side of this is that we’re also really really good and spotting patterns that aren’t there - see all the nonsense about faces on Mars, for instance. So the first step of science is to take objective, unbiased measurements of whatever it is we think we see to see if we really see it or if we just think we see it. Until that’s done, the observation is, in a word, worthless. ---
**Author:** ![aerodave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f08c70/32.png) [@aerodave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerodave)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/39 "2012-04-17T16:27:28Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > This thread is a fantastic illustration of why we need science. And the OP is doing his part to begin the Scientific Method. He’s made an observation, and is trying to work out a hypothesis. Only then can it be tested. I think the pendulum on this board has swung too far in the direction of “that observation sounds like a sterotype; it can’t be true.” No, a stereotype isn’t _necessarily_ true; but it still _might_ be true. Every time there’s a “Why do black people…?” thread, there are people who try to sa,y “Whatever difference you observed doesn’t—indeed, _can’t_—exist, because no behavioral or physiological differences exist between ethnic groups!” ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/40 "2012-04-17T16:39:46Z")
If a weak chin is a sign of poverty, who exactly is getting all these chin augmentation surgeries? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005.md?page=3)