# Why do so many lower class white people have poorly defined chins? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005 "2012-04-17T03:16:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/41 "2012-04-17T16:46:37Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > If a weak chin is a sign of poverty, who exactly is getting all these chin augmentation surgeries? People who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and stopped being poor? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/42 "2012-04-17T16:53:15Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > People who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and stopped being poor? So what happens to their kids? Do they not inherent the poor-jaw? I’m on the shuttle to my university, which attracts very well-off undergrads. I spot a few week chins. They don’t look like white trash, as they are in nice make up and designer clothes. Put the whole bus in overalls, and I bet they would all look white trash, regardless of chin. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/43 "2012-04-17T16:58:41Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > So what happens to their kids? Do they not inherent the poor-jaw? I was being facetious. But I kind of am hoping that my baby doesn’t inherit my overbite… ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/44 "2012-04-17T17:00:02Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > People who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and stopped being poor? Or chinstraps? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/45 "2012-04-17T17:10:58Z")
> [@aerodave](#): > > And the OP is doing his part to begin the Scientific Method. He’s made an observation, and is trying to work out a hypothesis. Only then can it be tested. No, he hasn’t even made an objective observation. The first step after noting an apparent pattern is to determine whether that pattern in fact exists by using random sampling and statistical analysis. Only then would it be appropriate to generate a hypothesis as to _why_ the pattern might exist. The OP’s first question should have been whether or not the supposed correlation actually occurs. Instead he made the assumption that his casual observations reflected a real pattern and jumped to asking what the cause might be. ---
**Author:** ![Weaver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Weaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weaver)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/46 "2012-04-17T17:34:58Z")
I always thought that weak chin = small gene pool, although since I’m a Brit I associated it more with ‘posh’ people, specifically nobility, then poor people. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/47 "2012-04-17T17:39:50Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I honestly didn’t know if other people had noticed it or if there was some well-known issue that is documented. That’s why I asked. > > If I asked a similar question like ‘Why are poor people in the U.S. so damn fat?’, the question would be equally broad and controversial except we know there is a strong correlation between poverty and obesity and science is still working out all the exact details on why that happens. > > I am sure the people that first documented that correlation started with a simple observation as well. Hint: Look up “Fetal Alcohol Syndrome” and alcohol abuse among the poor. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/48 "2012-04-17T18:10:14Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > Hint: Look up “Fetal Alcohol Syndrome” and alcohol abuse among the poor. I was curious so I google image searched it and the results are really bizarre as some examples seem like average looking people. One of the symptoms epicanthal folds in the reference I saw said it could or could not be due to FAS and to keep in mind it is natural for some races. It seems like it would be difficult to definitively diagnose. [![](http://www.focus77.com/obgyn/ims/fetal_alcohol.jpg) ](http://www.focus77.com/obgyn/ims/fetal_alcohol.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Anachronism](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Anachronism](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anachronism)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/49 "2012-04-17T18:10:31Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > Hint: Look up “Fetal Alcohol Syndrome” and alcohol abuse among the poor. To save those interested a little searching –\> [http://blog.lib.umn.edu/meriw007/psy\_1001/2011/11/fetal-alcohol-syndrome.php](http://blog.lib.umn.edu/meriw007/psy_1001/2011/11/fetal-alcohol-syndrome.php) Micrognathia is underdevelopment of the jaw and sometimes associated with fetal alcohol syndrome. If the OPs observation is true it could be possible that the higher incidence of obesity among the lower class makes a weak chin more apparent. It is also possible that higher class people spend more time/effort/ money on makeup or clothes to minimize the appearance of a weak chin. FWIW I have a weakish chin and a goatee. I am middle class and have some English heritage. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/50 "2012-04-17T18:28:33Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Or chinstraps? No, I think you’d definitely want to use bootstraps instead if you had a weak chin. A chinstrap might slip off. Fetal alcohol syndrome is one theory about why the “feeble-minded” side of the Kallikak family looked the way they did, and why some of them might have been mentally retarded. (Of course, in 1912, nobody knew what fetal alcohol syndrome was) ETA: If poor Swedish people tend to have upturned noses, then I have the physical signs of both poor British people (a weak chin) _and_ poor Swedish people. I do have British and Swedish ancestors… ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/51 "2012-04-17T18:37:00Z")
[QUOTE=The Influence of Socioeconomic Factors on the Occurrence of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome] **Abstract** : This study was designed to compare manifestations of FAS in the offspring of lower and upper middle class chronic alcoholic mothers, and to compare these offspring with those of nonalcoholic controls. There was highly significant difference in the incidence of FAS offspring between upper middle and lower class alcoholic mothers, 4.5% versus 70.9% respectively. Mean weight, length, and head circumference at birth in children of upper middle class alcoholic women was -ISD, those of lower class alcoholic women fell into -2SD. All other parameters, congenital malformation rate, failure to thrive, mental retardation were also significantly greater in children of lower class alcoholic women (p\<.01). Attention deficit disorder was found in 21% of upper middle class offspring of alcoholic women as compared to 71% in the children of the lower socioeconomic group (p\<.01). [/QUOTE] Sorry, I was at work and couldn’t start providing cites in favor of the OP. It seemed like he was being killed 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/52 "2012-04-17T18:43:30Z")
The question is “Why do so many lower class white people have poorly defined chins?” So I’d say, posture, genetics, dental care, and attention to personal appearance are big factors. Probably the same reasons why so many people in all racist and classist categories have poorly defined chins. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/53 "2012-04-17T18:54:12Z")
> [@aerodave](#): > > And the OP is doing his part to begin the Scientific Method. He’s made an observation, and is trying to work out a hypothesis. Only then can it be tested. Sorry, but you, like the OP, don’t understand the scientific method. The “observation” step that is taught as part of the scientific method in school is the step in which data are gathered and examined, in order to be certain that a correlation actually exists. You don’t leap from one guy noticing something to trying to explain his conjecture – because people often “notice” spurious, non-existent phenomena. That’s why we have phrases like “confirmation bias” > [@](#): > > I think the pendulum on this board has swung too far in the direction of “that observation sounds like a sterotype; it can’t be true.” No, a stereotype isn’t _necessarily_ true; but it still _might_ be true. Every time there’s a “Why do black people…?” thread, there are people who try to sa,y “Whatever difference you observed doesn’t—indeed, _can’t_—exist, because no behavioral or physiological differences exist between ethnic groups!” Somehow I’m willing to bet no one has ever said that here, but rather you made the same error then that you’re making now – you are equating someone asking for evidence that a phenomenon is real with them insisting that it isn’t. Having observed one of these arguments about racial stereotypes here, I’ve noticed a lamentable trend of posters doing what you’re doing. They, like you, tried to suggest that it was somehow an intellectual failing to ask for evidence that a phenomenon exists before proffering up explanations for it. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/54 "2012-04-17T19:22:56Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > inbreeding. Considering we Yanks tend to [del]profile[/del] stereotype lower class whites as the inbreeders this actually seems the likeliest explanation. I know what the OP s talking about, although I’d freely admit it’s probably confirmation bias. That, and weak-chinned sorts may actually be disproportionately barred from decent opportunities because they just look dumb. ---
**Author:** ![cynyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@cynyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cynyc)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/55 "2012-04-17T19:32:32Z")
Unless the so-called “weak chin” is a medical problem I don’t see the point. Aesthetically that sort of thing is important to the self-appointed ‘well-bred.’ I don’t have a “strong chin” (remember these are aesthetic terms) but I don’t go for uptight wealthy types anyway. I went out with a dermatologist once and he dragged me to a jaw surgeon. The surgeon and I concurred that my doctor boyfriend had ‘issues.’ And I sure as hell don’t look like a pre-op poster girl for a plastic surgeon. Obesity was _where it was at_ once. Then anorectics. And lets not forget those bound crippled feet… ---
**Author:** ![Crab\_Rangoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Crab\_Rangoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crab_Rangoon)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/56 "2012-04-17T19:47:31Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Considering we Yanks tend to [del]profile[/del] stereotype lower class whites as the inbreeders this actually seems the likeliest explanation. I know what the OP s talking about, although I’d freely admit it’s probably confirmation bias. That, and weak-chinned sorts may actually be disproportionately barred from decent opportunities because they just look dumb. Really? I look dumb? ☹ But…I have a good job. I can’t look all that dumb I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/57 "2012-04-17T20:10:53Z")
> [@Crab\_Rangoon](#): > > Really? I look dumb? Well…do your top teeth also stick out? If they do and you also have no forehead (flat top from bridge of the nose to the back of your head), then yeah, you [probably do look dumb](http://www.squidoo.com/barney-gumble). Just a stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/58 "2012-04-17T20:30:45Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > ETA: If poor Swedish people tend to have upturned noses, then I have the physical signs of both poor British people (a weak chin) _and_ poor Swedish people. I do have British and Swedish ancestors… Well, congratulations, you also have the nose that’s common among rich Swedish people 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/59 "2012-04-17T20:32:51Z")
Watch the film _Gummo_ sometime. It was filmed in a lower-class suburb of Nashville. Lots of examples of weak/non-existent chins. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005/60 "2012-04-17T20:36:07Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Well…do your top teeth also stick out? Maxillary protrusion (teeth sticking out) can create a weak looking chin and is associated with maternal malnutrition during pregnancy. Maternal malnutrition and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, I wonder if they can be linked to being poor? or maybe that’s just too classist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-lower-class-white-people-have-poorly-defined-chins/619005.md?page=4)