# Why do so many of the people who identify as White have a hard time seeing the racism around them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 29, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716 "2019-03-29T17:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/181 "2019-04-04T15:55:52Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > There [was](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/07/there-was-a-very-real-birther-debate-about-john-mccain/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b07ee184645c)a [controversy](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/23415028/ns/nbc_nightly_news_with_brian_williams/t/mccains-citizenship-called-question/#.XKYnOFVKiUk)other whether McCain was eligible to be President. > > There were also controversies about Chester A Arthur, Charles Evans Hughes, Barry Goldwater, and Ted Cruz. Bought into by just as many people? And the person leading the charge on the conspiracy theory was later elected as president? Apples and Oranges. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/182 "2019-04-04T15:57:50Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > If Obama had been white, would people have been against him, or are black candidates the only ones who face opposition? Can you name a white politician that has been accused of being a secret Muslim intent on enacting sharia law in America? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/183 "2019-04-04T16:02:19Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > If Obama had been white, would people have been against him, or are black candidates the only ones who face opposition? It’s not about opposition – it’s about evidence-free, racist conspiracy theories that were embraced by tens of millions, including the eventual nominee for President in 2016. There’s no comparison to that on the other side. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/184 "2019-04-04T16:08:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > This reminds me of the common tactic of white people who deny that racism is a problem outside of the relatively few numbers of KKK and neo-Nazis who march in the streets. > > 1988: “There’s nothing racist about the Willie Horton ad. It could have just as easily been a white criminal in that ad!” > Then, years later: “Well, okay, Willie Horton was chosen for the ad in large part because he was black. But those days are over!” > > 1994: “Just because Newsweek darkened the skin of OJ Simpson on the cover of the magazine doesn’t mean that they were trying to scare the public with a black-er man. I’m sure white people have their skin color tinkered with for these photos all the time!” > Then, years later: “Well, okay, OJ Simpson was made to look scarier to white people. But those days are over!” > > 2019, sadly: “Just because Trump and others accused Obama of being a seekrit Muslim doesn’t mean there is anything racial going on here. It could happen to any presidential candidate!” > > I predict we will see someone soon tell us that those days of birtherism are behind us. Were there plenty of examples of white murderers being let out by Massachusetts on a weekend pass who then when on to rape and assault people? If a white murderer had raped that lady, assaulted that guy, and shot that cop do you think people would have been okay with it? When did anyone from Time magazine ever admit that they made OJ Simpson look scarier to white people? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/185 "2019-04-04T16:16:44Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Were there plenty of examples of white murderers being let out by Massachusetts on a weekend pass who then when on to rape and assault people? If a white murderer had raped that lady, assaulted that guy, and shot that cop do you think people would have been okay with it? Such an example wouldn’t have been put in that racist political advertisement. > [@puddleglum](#): > > When did anyone from Time magazine ever admit that they made OJ Simpson look scarier to white people? When did an example of someone doing something wrong become a valid excuse for others to do something wrong? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/186 "2019-04-04T16:16:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not about opposition – it’s about evidence-free, racist conspiracy theories that were embraced by tens of millions, including the eventual nominee for President in 2016. There’s no comparison to that on the other side. Every president faces evidence free conspiracy theories that are embraced by tens of millions. Trump has faced the Russia conspiracy theories. Is that because Democrats hate white people or because people like to believe bad things about the opposing party’s candidates. Which is worse, being accused of being born in another country or being an agent of Russian intelligence committing treason? Most democrats believed that about Trump. Which is worse being accused of being a secret Muslim or of allowing 9-11 to happen? Most democrats believed that about Bush. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/187 "2019-04-04T16:19:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Such an example wouldn’t have been put in that racist political advertisement. Because people would be just fine with allowing murderers to roam the streets raping women, stabbing people, and shooting cops as long as they are the right color? Horton was an issue because his actions were the predictable consequences of Dukakis vetoing legislation that would not let convicted murderers get weekend passes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/188 "2019-04-04T16:27:22Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Every president faces evidence free conspiracy theories that are embraced by tens of millions. Trump has faced the Russia conspiracy theories. Is that because Democrats hate white people or because people like to believe bad things about the opposing party’s candidates. > > Which is worse, being accused of being born in another country or being an agent of Russian intelligence committing treason? Most democrats believed that about Trump. > > Which is worse being accused of being a secret Muslim or of allowing 9-11 to happen? Most democrats believed that about Bush. Most “democrats”? :rolleyes: BTW, if you think the conspiracy theories about Trump’s association with the Russians is evidence-free, then discussing this issue about racism with you is probably a complete waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/189 "2019-04-04T16:28:55Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Because people would be just fine with allowing murderers to roam the streets raping women, stabbing people, and shooting cops as long as they are the right color? > > Horton was an issue because his actions were the predictable consequences of Dukakis vetoing legislation that would not let convicted murderers get weekend passes. Play word-twist with someone else. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/190 "2019-04-04T16:29:58Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Every president faces evidence free conspiracy theories that are embraced by tens of millions. Trump has faced the Russia conspiracy theories. Is that because Democrats hate white people or because people like to believe bad things about the opposing party’s candidates. > > Which is worse, being accused of being born in another country or being an agent of Russian intelligence committing treason? Most democrats believed that about Trump. > > Which is worse being accused of being a secret Muslim or of allowing 9-11 to happen? Most democrats believed that about Bush. Do you have a cite for either of these claims? In my understanding, most Democrats are very critical of Trump for the many times he’s praised Putin and appeared to take his side over US intelligence, as well as the time he gave Russia classified Israeli intelligence and urged Russia to hack his political opponents. Is that what you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/191 "2019-04-04T17:26:12Z")
I didn’t find much for the specific working of “Russian agent”, but > [@](#): > > Every time respondents were asked about the investigation, about 8 in 10 Democrats said they thought the Trump campaign colluded with Russia, while 7 in 10 Republicans said they did not. [Cite](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-poll/on-trumps-ties-to-russia-americans-have-made-up-their-minds-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKCN1QP1E5). The other one was easier - > [@](#): > > More than half of Democrats, according to a neutral survey, said they believed Bush was complicit in the 9/11 terror attacks. [Cite](https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2011/04/more-than-half-of-democrats-believed-bush-knew-035224). That is, they said it was highly or somewhat likely that Bush knew about 911 ahead of time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/192 "2019-04-04T17:27:38Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > > [@Ravenman](#): > > > > This reminds me of the common tactic of white people who deny that racism is a problem outside of the relatively few numbers of KKK and neo-Nazis who march in the streets. > > > > 1988: “There’s nothing racist about the Willie Horton ad. It could have just as easily been a white criminal in that ad!” > > Then, years later: “Well, okay, Willie Horton was chosen for the ad in large part because he was black. But those days are over!” > > > > 1994: “Just because Newsweek darkened the skin of OJ Simpson on the cover of the magazine doesn’t mean that they were trying to scare the public with a black-er man. I’m sure white people have their skin color tinkered with for these photos all the time!” > > Then, years later: “Well, okay, OJ Simpson was made to look scarier to white people. But those days are over!” > > > > 2019, sadly: “Just because Trump and others accused Obama of being a seekrit Muslim doesn’t mean there is anything racial going on here. It could happen to any presidential candidate!” > > > > I predict we will see someone soon tell us that those days of birtherism are behind us. > > Were there plenty of examples of white murderers being let out by Massachusetts on a weekend pass who then when on to rape and assault people? If a white murderer had raped that lady, assaulted that guy, and shot that cop do you think people would have been okay with it? > > When did anyone from Time magazine ever admit that they made OJ Simpson look scarier to white people? I should have stated in the post you quoted that there are also people who will just deny that racism existed in America after 1964. I’ll chalk your post up in that column. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/193 "2019-04-04T18:17:45Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The problem is that by moving away, they continued to segregate schools; it’s just more of a de facto segregation than one upheld by local custom. Moreover, by moving away from black communities, whites no longer had an interest in what happened to black communities, and not just the schools but everything else that happens in a black community. That’s what segregation allows white people to do to black people: it allows people to take away jobs, take away educators, take away competent administrators, take away tax dollars, and it leaves frustrated and poor black residents with comparatively much less opportunity and much less hope - and it allows white people the opportunity to ignore it all, because their children now are ‘safe’ from ‘those’ schools and ‘those’ people. Or at least safe until one of those who, out of anger and hopelessness, turned to a life of crime ends up pulling a gun on them, I guess. You make it sound like it’s the white people’s obligation to take up the slack for the black people, which is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/194 "2019-04-04T19:07:43Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Wikipedia says: > > During the four years Obama worked as a full-time lawyer at the firm, he was involved in 30 cases and accrued 3,723 billable hours. > > Is that wrong? One word of it is. If you multiply 4 by the number of working hours in a year, and then compare it to 3723, perhaps you can figure out what it is. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/195 "2019-04-04T19:14:04Z")
Shiiiiiiiit, Trump doesn’t even do a full-time job as President. But nobody is calling the white man lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/196 "2019-04-04T19:25:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > One word of it is. If you multiply 4 by the number of working hours in a year, and then compare it to 3723, perhaps you can figure out what it is. > > Regards, > Shodan Is it possible he worked many hours that were not billable to a client? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/197 "2019-04-04T19:27:20Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You may find it interesting to read [this article](https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/a-sociologist-examines-the-white-fragility-that-prevents-white-americans-from-confronting-racism), which was quoted before: I find DiAngelo’s contributions to be worthless. She characterizes denial as fragility, essentially crafting a rubric where her conclusions are not falsifiable. Her description of fragility is that _‘People are racist and if they deny it, they are racists’_. Weak. This isn’t to say that racism isn’t pervasive and highly impactful. I believe it is. But from what I’ve read of DiAngelo’s work, it’s just not very useful. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/198 "2019-04-04T19:28:54Z")
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Billable hours is not equal to total hours worked. Plus the firm says he was full time, so it’s kind of crazy to just not believe them. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/199 "2019-04-04T20:20:52Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > The OP has done an excellent job of painting anything I could possibly say into a corner. Dismissing everything I’ve experienced as myopic, blind-spot, white privilege. There’s not a thing I can do about that. I suspect as an Old White Guy, there’s nothing I could do to redeem myself in the eyes of some of the more militant members of this thread. How has it? Does everything you’ve experienced boil down to “there is no such thing as racism anymore”? If that’s the case yes, you’re not only missing information, but disregarding a lot of easily-available information. If it boils down to “racism in the US\* is not as bad as under Jim Crow\* but yes it still exists”, that’s accurate. I’m a white woman, and I’ve experienced racism in the US: both positive+ (customs officers and US Marshals assuming I was American and therefore that they didn’t need to see my ID) and negative (people wondering how could I live in a predominantly black neighborhood; people wondering how could I live in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood; a cop stopping me and a black coworker on our way to lunch to ask if he was bothering me). - Substitute appropriate local low points as appropriate. - For some values of positive. I mean damnit, I do need my passport stamped when I come into the US. The color of my skin is completely unrelated to the color of my passport. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/200 "2019-04-04T20:21:25Z")
So he was a full time employee who worked half time? Oooookay. Obama has said explicitly that he ran for the Illinois Senate because it was a part-time position. > [@Barack Obama](#): > > I was living in the district, and the state legislature was a part-time position. [Cite](https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/30/us/politics/30obama.html). Barack Obama never worked full time at a job until he was elected to the US Senate, and he quit that job early. Honestly, the knots you people tie yourselves into believing in contradictions. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716.md?page=11)