# Why do so many of the people who identify as White have a hard time seeing the racism around them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 29, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716 "2019-03-29T17:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/41 "2019-03-30T15:09:14Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > People who identify as ‘white’ don’t see or care about racism around them because they are racists. Wow, that’s an amazing comment. It’s that simple, huh? If you don’t see racism, you’re a racist? There are over 300 million people in this country, all with different life experiences. And we’re supposed to reduce this to “they are racists”. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/42 "2019-03-30T15:14:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The crippling disease keeping America from becoming greater is a willful disregard for scholastic achievement. Not just willful disregard but willful self deception reinforced by the media. This is the real “fake news” white Americans make up for other white Americans. For example : Take the sitcom Bing Bang Theory which represents Caltech a d Caltech Physics department to a great extent. All the cast is white except for the Indian who of course is someone mediocre who made it due to the money his parents have 🙂 In reality, this is the graduate population of Caltech Physics. [http://pma.caltech.edu/people?cat\_one=Graduate%20Students&cat\_two=Physics](http://pma.caltech.edu/people?cat_one=Graduate%20Students&cat_two=Physics) If you look through, the above cite : more than half of the population is non white. Then look at the Big Bang Cafeteria scenes - it’s all mostly whites 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/43 "2019-03-30T15:27:19Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > Wow, that’s an amazing comment. It’s that simple, huh? If you don’t see racism, you’re a racist? There are over 300 million people in this country, all with different life experiences. And we’re supposed to reduce this to “they are racists”. No, not at all. I consider people who identify as ‘white’ to be racists because they believe that humans can be separated into races. ‘Race’ is an artificial concept, there is no such biological property. To me racism is the belief that there are different human ‘races’, and all of the problems of racists and racism stem from that. I know people don’t like it when I say this. I wish there was some better way to say it, but I don’t believe we can fight racism without destroying the false underlying basis of it entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/44 "2019-03-30T15:37:44Z")
One issue regarding discussions of race and racism in the US is that automatically and unless someone redirects things, it quickly evolves into “racism against blacks”; blacks are the one group Americans think of as “tradisionally disenfranchised” but they are neither the only ones discriminated against by reason of their ancestry nor the only ones who have a history of such discrimination. That simplification is, itself, racism, as it disregards the history and problems of every other group who’s gotten the short end of the American racial lottery. Just one example of many, from this same thread: > [@survinga](#): > > Also, America is changing. It’s not just black and white anymore. There are a whole fucking lot of Native Americans who’d like to know when the fuck has America been black and white. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/45 "2019-03-30T15:58:58Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > There are a whole fucking lot of Native Americans who’d like to know when the fuck has America been black and white. Touche. America has sinned mightily against Native Americans, and they were here before any of the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/46 "2019-03-30T17:50:19Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > Not just willful disregard but willful self deception reinforced by the media. > > This is the real “fake news” white Americans make up for other white Americans. > > For example : Take the sitcom Bing Bang Theory which represents Caltech a d Caltech Physics department to a great extent. All the cast is white except for the Indian who of course is someone mediocre who made it due to the money his parents have 🙂 > > In reality, this is the graduate population of Caltech Physics. [http://pma.caltech.edu/people?cat\_one=Graduate%20Students&cat\_two=Physics](http://pma.caltech.edu/people?cat_one=Graduate%20Students&cat_two=Physics) > > If you look through, the above cite : more than half of the population is non white. > > Then look at the Big Bang Cafeteria scenes - it’s all mostly whites 🙂 I think in some cases it’s simply a matter of context. I’m an old white guy, and until just now I’d never noticed that. Is that depiction considered racism? Is my lack of awareness ? I’m really not sure. Please understand, I’m an old guy who grew up in the rural south. The people around me used “nigger” as commonly as we would use the word “tall”. My grandparents would punish me for playing with the black kids a few streets over. I was told “They ain’t our kind, and they need to know their place.” I’ve been to older stores back in the sticks that still had 3 restrooms. On my first job pumping gas I was admonished by the owner that we didn’t “serve their kind”. In the context of those experiences, the minor offenses of today don’t seem like a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/47 "2019-03-30T18:06:07Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > No, not at all. I consider people who identify as ‘white’ to be racists because they believe that humans can be separated into races. ‘Race’ is an artificial concept, there is no such biological property. To me racism is the belief that there are different human ‘races’, and all of the problems of racists and racism stem from that. I know people don’t like it when I say this. I wish there was some better way to say it, but I don’t believe we can fight racism without destroying the false underlying basis of it entirely. Uh… there most definitely _ **is** _ such a thing as race. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/48 "2019-03-30T18:33:52Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > Even though Trump has courted White racists in his political life, I think the trajectory on race is getting better in the US. More and more, I think people are getting along better than in the old days. If you mean relative to, say, 1960, I would agree; if you mean relative to a decade or two ago, I’m less certain. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I just don’t know. In terms of my regular interactions with people, I don’t think much has changed during my adult life, but I’m definitely seeing movements and rhetoric that I couldn’t have imagined seeing 10-20 years ago, and it’s deeply disturbing. Words matter - they represent ideas, and bad ideas can become romanticized and popular in ways that might seem far-fetched initially. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/49 "2019-03-30T18:36:59Z")
White people don’t see racism unless it’s just over-the-top obvious. We’re just not in a position to understand what racism is, which by itself is understandable. The problem is that even when you point out that someone has biases - not that they’re racist but simply biased - people tend to get defensive. Even among self-identified ‘progressive’ white males such as myself, we don’t want to acknowledge that we have flaws or that we have biases. There’s a human tendency to assume that we know what we think we know based on our own observations and experiences. Speaking as a white male, I’ve seen this problem with race and with gender as well, a tendency to white male-spain everything to people who have a much better understanding of the subjects we think we know, but really don’t. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/50 "2019-03-30T18:38:37Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Uh… there most definitely _ **is** _ such a thing as race. As an artificial human-created sociological category, sure. But I’m pretty sure that poster’s point is that we as a society should strive to dismantle this human-created categorization since it’s done so march harm. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/51 "2019-03-30T18:54:46Z")
> [@Darkon](#): > > It seems to me that brazen racism has resurged since Trump was elected, but racism itself, whether blatant or otherwise, has been ubiquitous since the United States was founded. So, what is it that keeps Whites, Caucasians, European-Americans, or whatever it is you call yourself, from acknowledging that it is here, that it is a crippling disease that keeps America from being great, and that it will continue to be here until you do something about it? It’s interesting you note it as a disease, because I always thought racism was some psychological disorder or akin to a psychosis, think about it, how many people in psychosis without treatment are able to define what’s wrong with them or accept it? Same with racism. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/52 "2019-03-30T19:29:17Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > No, not at all. I consider people who identify as ‘white’ to be racists because they believe that humans can be separated into races. ‘Race’ is an artificial concept, there is no such biological property. To me racism is the belief that there are different human ‘races’, and all of the problems of racists and racism stem from that. I know people don’t like it when I say this. I wish there was some better way to say it, but I don’t believe we can fight racism without destroying the false underlying basis of it entirely. So when you fill out forms, be it for a Driver’s License or the Census or any other form that asks, what box do you check for race or ethnicity? Do you check “none of the above”, “white”, “black”, “other”? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/53 "2019-03-30T20:01:46Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Really? I could see the US being less racist than the middle east or east asia. > > But my impression is compared to the UK, Canada, the netherlands, etc. we are more racist. I’m not sure about Canada or the Netherlands, but the UK certainly has an issue. But before diving into that, let me first make clear that I use the term “racism” honestly. For most people, in the US, it means negative thoughts and activities towards black people and they ignore the Chinese lady they work with, and the Indian guy, and the Brazilian lady, etc. and they ignore positive racism. I have, for example, mostly experienced positive racism from when I lived in Japan. When people talk about “white privilege”, it’s very clearly a thing. If you go wandering around a black neighborhood at night and a police officer stops you, he’ll more likely than not warn you that is dangerous out and you should go home. Whereas if a black person is wandering around a white neighborhood at night, the officer will be deeply suspicious of their intents and, minus perfect behavior, quite possibly end up arresting that person. You read that example and probably think I’m terms of that the later case is racist but that the former _isn’t_, and that’s not correct. Positive treatment is also racist. In Japan, as a foreigner, the popular rule of behavior is that if you are not perfect, you will be thrown out of the country without hesitation. If you’re Filipino and you get drunk and get caught pissing in an alley, you’ll be thrown out of the country without even being given the chance to go to your apartment and pack your things. If you are late renewing your work visa, they’ll ship you out. (Note: This might have changed in recent years due to an increasing reliance on foreign labor.) But I was late with my visa renewal (I hadn’t noticed that the sticker said it was both good for four years AND one year, just the first), so when I was about to leave the country without a valid visa, they warned me against leaving the country and helped to get it renewed. I was white. White foreigners are alright, just not Southeast Asian or black, or anything else. For many things (small things), I would probably be able to get into more trouble than your average Japanese person and get away with it, because whiteness is godliness from a cultural sense. The Japanese consider themselves part of the Caucasian world. But, at the same time, most Japanese would not be willing to have a serious relationship with a white man, because they’re mildly opposed to miscegenation. Half white children tend to get a cold reception from their grandparents. So I have also seen and experienced negative racism as a white person, in Japan. Like I said, it was mostly positive - where I’m treated better than others, including sometimes the Japanese themselves - but at heart I’m just a giant amalgamation of cells that consumes and procreates in accordance with the same evolutionary background as all of them. There’s no reason for the positive nor the negative. And racism is usually a mix, it’s not confined to being all good or all bad. But where most people sort of enjoy experiencing positive racism, if they go to Asia or Mexico or wherever, personally I’m not too fond of it. I don’t like irrational things, so it still sticks out to me when I sense it occurring. So I put it under the heading of racism where most people would go to Mexico and think, “The people are so friendly!” Lack of racism is lack of caring. If my daughter wants to marry a guy from Egypt, I don’t care, so long as he’s nice. If I’m thinking how amazing and special and foreign he is, and how he brings along all this stuff from ancient history, etc. then that’s racist. If I don’t like him because he makes me think of terrorists, that’s also racist, but it’s not the only version of racism. Like I said, racism is anything beyond giving zero fucks one way or the other. In the UK, there are very sharply separated Muslim areas. The nearby locals wanted to be super PC so when there were hints that they were selling children to each other as spouses, they suppressed that information because it would be anti-PC to arrest them for breaking the laws of the land. The Muslim community (as I understand it from reading about the situation) is a strongly separate community. There is not a lot of withing together and hanging out and so on. They’re there in town, but it may as well be a different town that just happens to exist in a donut hole of our town. In American history, we used to have sharp borders like that - with the East Coast creating all these Little Italies and Little Ukraines and so on, the West Coast has a half dozen Chinatowns, but that’s no longer how it works. Chinese people come over and just pick a place to live. They might try to pinpoint someplace _more_ popular with other Chinese, because they want access to a Chinese supermarket, but it’s not a huge deal, and white people don’t avoid moving in, nor do Indians or anyone else. It’s not a matter of being pushed into that area, it’s just that that’s where there’s a Chinese supermarket. Ignoring the African American issue, the US is among the most inviting and diversity-friendly places on Earth. Canada may be ahead of us (though, I know they have problems with their native people in places). I’m unaware of state of the Netherlands, but we’re probably ahead of the UK, France, Germany, etc. If you watch Dr Who, for example, they’re clearly trying to include diversity as an active measure. They clearly know that it’s a thing that requires active investment. And, more importantly, I would be willing to bet that if you threw a White Nationalism rally in the UK (if the government allowed it), you’d probably get a crowd the size of or larger than our Unite the Right did, even though the UK has a smaller population. But, in the UK, they probably don’t allow it because they don’t believe in Freedom of Speech. And that’s one reason why they probably have the division and the racism, because they don’t allow people to talk and they have their stupid libel laws that don’t let the press raise concerns in advance. The US really only has the one thing: The African American issue. But that’s not the entirety of the picture. It’s a small portion. Obviously a significant one, but to focus on it is to gloss over a whole bunch of other stuff. But I will note some points: 1. Part of our population was enslaved. Ignoring the ramifications of that and lumping it under racism is being a bit simplistic. You also have issues like teaching a whole group of people to not trust the rest of society and then switching around one day and expecting the culture to flip on a dime as well. And, minus a trusting culture, that impacts finical decisions, school decisions, medical decisions, etc. which affect how prosperous that person or their children become. It moves beyond racism to “the weight of history”. 1. Africans do well. Barack Obama became president. Others from Africa do about as well as we would expect from their educational attainment. Minus the weight of history, the effects are strongly different. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/54 "2019-03-30T20:03:20Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > So when you fill out forms, be it for a Driver’s License or the Census or any other form that asks, what box do you check for race or ethnicity? Do you check “none of the above”, “white”, “black”, “other”? I leave it blank or write in “human”. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/55 "2019-03-30T21:07:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I leave it blank or write in “human”. I check “white”. So, in your view, that makes me a racist… ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/56 "2019-03-31T00:12:55Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > I think in some cases it’s simply a matter of context. I’m an old white guy, and until just now I’d never noticed that. I am not young either and understand how you would’nt notice. That’s the nature of self deception. > [@pullin](#): > > Is that depiction considered racism? Racism comes in many blatant and subtle forms. I am not sure why are you asking the question. What do you think ? > [@pullin](#): > > Is my lack of awareness ? Maybe it was your lack awareness. What really matters is what you will do once you have the awareness. > [@pullin](#): > > Please understand, I’m an old guy who grew up in the rural south. The people around me used “nigger” as commonly as we would use the word “tall”. My grandparents would punish me for playing with the black kids a few streets over. I was told “They ain’t our kind, and they need to know their place.” I’ve been to older stores back in the sticks that still had 3 restrooms. On my first job pumping gas I was admonished by the owner that we didn’t “serve their kind”. It seems like you witnessed a lot of racism. I hope that helped you see how the other side may have felt. I also hope you have educated your kids and grandkids well to recognize it and oppose it. > [@pullin](#): > > In the context of those experiences, the minor offenses of today don’t seem like a big deal. I hope you really don’t mean that. It’s this type of desensitization that keeps racism and bias alive. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/57 "2019-03-31T00:48:03Z")
In a herd of cattle, it’s the ones who directly encounter the cattle prods who are viscerally aware that they aren’t free to roam. Like most white people, I’m seldom aware of when things as I experience them are not experienced the same way for nonwhite people. I don’t embrace an identity as “a white person” – that doesn’t freaking matter. I don’t get deprived systematically. I’m left to think that the degree of fairness and reasonableness of the systems I encounter is how those systems are, _when they’re not_ — they’re like that for me and other people marked as white by external observers, but they’re not like that for folks who are marked by external observers as nonwhite. Especially black. Racism corrals all of us (as do the other oppressive ‘isms’ for that matter). But it specifically does so by disempowering and dehumanizing black people (in modern times, in America specifically if not worldwide; at other times and in other places, other people, other racial ideologies – and in our own time and culture not limited by any means to black people, but I daresay no ethnicity or race is quite as downtrodden by racism in our era / culture as black people are). ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/58 "2019-03-31T03:05:51Z")
> [@Darkon](#): > > It seems to me that brazen racism has resurged since Trump was elected, but racism itself, whether blatant or otherwise, has been ubiquitous since the United States was founded. So, what is it that keeps Whites, Caucasians, European-Americans, or whatever it is you call yourself, from acknowledging that it is here, that it is a crippling disease that keeps America from being great, and that it will continue to be here until you do something about it? Ok, I’ll answer. If you want me to believe that racism is “ubiquitous” and a “crippling disease” and you want me to “do something about it”, then the burden of proof is on you. I don’t believe those things are true, but if you want me to believe them, feel free to make a logical argument based on verifiable evidence. I’ll be happy to read anything of reasonable length. I believe that racism is relatively rare in the USA and while it would be great if it were eliminated entirely, there are many pressing issues more in need of attention. The primary evidence being the what the polls show. (See [here](https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wolf/) for polls and lengthy discussion.) Asked in any way, the number of people self-identifying as white supremacists or saying that black people are inferior is very low, often within the poll’s margin or error. This is in agreement with what I’ve observed in a lifetime of traveling the USA and talking to a great many people–a very small number are openly racist, while most are not. And what about claims of subconscious racism? Almost all claims of that sort that I’ve encountered are based on the Implicit Association Test (IAT), [which is pseudoscience](https://www.thecut.com/2017/01/psychologys-racism-measuring-tool-isnt-up-to-the-job.html). And then there are people who offer their own anecdotal stories about discovering their own biases, which recalls the saying “the plural of anecdote is not data”. And what about the fact that a certain sitcom misrepresents the racial makeup of a certain academic department? I see no reason to care. It’s a work of fiction. Sitcoms cannot harm anybody. Neither can movies, paintings, poetry, literature, music, jokes, or Democratic politicians who impersonated Michael Jackson in blackface three decades ago. The fact that so much angst is poured out on these topics tends rather to suggest that there’s a lack of more serious race-related topics to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/59 "2019-03-31T03:40:09Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Ok, I’ll answer. > > If you want me to believe that racism is “ubiquitous” and a “crippling disease” and you want me to “do something about it”, then the burden of proof is on you. I don’t believe those things are true, but if you want me to believe them, feel free to make a logical argument based on verifiable evidence. I’ll be happy to read anything of reasonable length. Well, the one item that I do think is important is about how minorities are treated by the justice system, in particular seeing how minorities end up with more time or harsher punishment for the same crimes that whites are found to commit. > **[Opinion | There’s overwhelming evidence that the criminal justice system is...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/opinions/systemic-racism-police-evidence-criminal-justice-system/)** > > Even controlling for crime rates, class and income, racial bias infects every nook and cranny of our courts, prisons, jails and police stations. > [@](#): > > A national study of misdemeanor arrests published this year in the Boston University Law Review found that the “black arrest rate is at least twice as high as the white arrest rate for disorderly conduct, drug possession, simple assault, theft, vagrancy, and vandalism. The black arrest rate for prostitution is almost five times higher than the white arrest rate, and the black arrest rate for gambling is almost ten times higher.” > [@](#): > > Missouri has been keeping data on traffic stops for 18 years, and for 18 years, the numbers consistently show that statewide, black people are more likely to be pulled over than white people. The data from 2017 showed the problem actually got worse, with blacks 85 percent more likely to be stopped. > > A 2015 ACLU study of four cities in New Jersey found that black people were 2.6 to 9.6 times more likely to be arrested than white people for low-level offenses. > [@](#): > > The drug war > > Black people are consistently arrested, charged and convicted of drug crimes including possession, distribution and conspiracy at far higher rates than white people. This, despite research showing that both races use and sell drugs at about the same rate. > > [ul] > [li]As of May, data from New York City showed that black people are arrested for marijuana at eight times the rate of white people. In Manhattan, it’s 15 times as much. Black neighborhoods produce far more arrests than white neighborhoods, despite data showing a similar rate at which residents complain about marijuana use.[/li][li] White people have made up about 45 percent of New York residents (about 33 percent if you count only non-Hispanic whites) over the past two decades but have made up fewer than 15 percent of the city’s marijuana arrests.[/li][li] A 2014 ACLU survey of SWAT teams across the country found that “dynamic entry” and paramilitary police tactics are disproportionately used against black and Latino people. Most of these raids were on people suspected of low-level drug crimes.[/li][li] When The Post in 2014 reviewed 400 recent instances of questionable asset forfeiture, a majority of the motorists who had property confiscated by the police were nonwhite.[/li][li] A 2013 study by the ACLU found that black people were 3.73 times more likely than white people to be arrested for marijuana possession. And 88 percent of marijuana arrests are for possession. (The disparity is actually lowest in the West and South, and highest in the Northeast and Midwest.) The study found that the racial disparities were also getting larger, not smaller.[/li][li] In contrast to the assertion that blacks are more likely to be arrested because they’re more likely to use drugs in public, a 2002 study of narcotics search warrants in the San Diego area — that is, warrants to search for drugs in private homes — found that black and Hispanic residents were “significantly over-represented as targets of narcotics search warrants,” even after adjusting for usage rates. The study also found that “searches of White suspects were more successful in recovering the targeted drug than were searches of either Black or Hispanic suspects.”[/li][li] According to figures from the National Registry of Exonerations (NER) black people are about five times more likely to go to prison for drug possession than white people. According to exoneration data, black people are also 12 times more likely to be wrongly convicted of drug crimes.[/li][li] When Harris County, Tex., saw a flaw in how drug testing was conducted at its crime lab, officials went back and exonerated dozens of people who had been wrongly convicted for possession — most pleaded guilty, despite their innocence. This is because prosecutors often promise harsher sentences or more charges for defendants who take a case to trial. Black people comprise 20 percent of the Harris County population but made up 62 percent of the wrongful drug convictions.[/li][li] Not included in these wrongful conviction figures are cases in which police and narcotics task forces conducted mass arrests of entire black or Latino neighborhoods or towns. Hundreds of people were persuaded to plead guilty to drug charges. By the NER’s estimate, there have been more than 1,800 such “group exonerations” in 15 cities since 1989. Almost all those exonerated were black or Latino.[/li][li] Black people comprise about 12.5 percent of drug users but 29 percent of arrests for drug crimes and 33 percent of those incarcerated.[/li][li] A 2017 report by the Sarasota Herald-Tribune of Florida’s drug convictions found that while blacks made up 17 percent of the state’s population, they made up 46 percent of felony drug convictions since 2004. Blacks were also three times as likely to get hit with — and made up two-thirds of — the sentencing enhancements for committing drug crimes near a school zone, church, park or public housing. In all, when blacks and whites committed similar drug crimes, blacks on average received a sentence that was two-thirds longer. In some parts of the state, it was two or three times longer.[/li][li] An analysis of drug war data by the Vera Institute of Justice published this year found that “the risk of incarceration in the federal system for someone who uses drugs monthly and is black is more than seven times that of his or her white counterpart.”[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/60 "2019-03-31T03:42:14Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > If you want me to believe that racism is “ubiquitous” and a “crippling disease” and you want me to “do something about it”, then the burden of proof is on you. I don’t believe those things are true, but if you want me to believe them, feel free to make a logical argument based on verifiable evidence. I’ll be happy to read anything of reasonable length. Unfortunately, the burden of proof is on the OP, but that doesn’t really address the questions/concerns raised in the post. Minorities - especially those who have been victimized the most - understand almost from day one that the burden of proof is on them. You’re not bringing anything new to this discussion by pointing that out; you’re validating his experiences, which is that you have no idea what it means to live on the other side of whiteness. “Feel free to make a logical argument” – uh, no, because life experiences aren’t syllogisms. Life isn’t a fucking math equation. So let’s not try to develop an algorithm, and maybe just drop the smug and be open to read about and listen to someone else’s life experiences. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716.md?page=4)