# Why do so many of the people who identify as White have a hard time seeing the racism around them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 29, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716 "2019-03-29T17:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/81 "2019-03-31T20:18:40Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Ok, let’s have a look at that article. The popular media does a bad job of representing science papers. The Guardian is a far left source and thus even less likely to be accurate. To start off, when summarizing a scientific paper, they could have given a proper reference to the paper but they didn’t. It appears [this is](https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP959) the paper referred to. > > First of all, the Guardian headline claims that “people of color are exposed to pollution” in general, but the study in question only looked at NO2, which is one of many pollutants. And this one finds a similar pattern with respect to [particulate matter (PM2.5)](https://www.pnas.org/content/116/13/6001). > [@](#): > > More importantly, what the study actually found is that NO2 levels for all racial groups, both in 2000 and 2010, were very far below the levels that the EPA considers dangerous. Specifically, the EPA’s [standard](https://www.epa.gov/no2-pollution/primary-national-ambient-air-quality-standards-naaqs-nitrogen-dioxide) is 53 ppb. The average for black areas was 16.2 ppb in 2000, dropping to 10.0 ppb in 2010. The paper does include a model purporting to show that heart attacks would decrease for non-whites if air pollution were lower, but gives no explanation of how that squares with the fact that NO2 levels are in ranges the EPA considers safe for everyone. By focusing on “averages”, you are ignoring what we environmental scientists refer to as “hot spots”. If you live next to an expressway, you don’t care about the average air quality of your county or zip code, since the average pollutant concentrations over these areas don’t represent what you are exposed to on a daily basis. [People who live next to a busy highway are a high risk of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and heart attacks. They may also be at a higher risk of Parkinson’s and dementia.](https://www.lung.org/our-initiatives/healthy-air/outdoor/air-pollution/highways.html) Guess what? [Thanks to redlining, black neighborhoods are more likely to be right next to busy roads and highways.](https://news.wbfo.org/post/expressway-seen-symbol-racial-inequity-health-problems) You’re also creating a strawman. The argument isn’t “Black people are all suffering worse air quality than white people!” The argument is that black people as a group are exposed to worse air quality than white people. And the statistics bear that out. Moreover, pollutant criteria are typically established to protect 90% of the population _in the absence of other stressors_. The “average” person can tolerate a lifetime exposure to 10 ppb. But if you have asthma or some other respiratory illness and you are exposed to other environmental pollutants (like PM2.5) and allergens (like mold), then 10 ppb probably isn’t protective for you. And guess what? [Blacks and Latinos are burdened by ashthma more than whites are](https://www.aafa.org/media/1633/ethnic-disparities-burden-treatment-asthma-report.pdf). > [@](#): > > So if the Guardian wanted their readers to know the truth, they could have reported that average black neighborhoods were well below dangerous levels of NO2 in 2000 and even farther below in 2010. No, if they had done this they would have been whitewashing the truth. Because the story isn’t “BLACK PEOPLE ARE LAYING UP IN HOSPITAL BEDS AND DYING BECAUSE OF TOXIC AIR POLLUTANTS!!” The story is “Black people are exposed to more toxic pollutants than whites , even when income is accounted for.” It doesn’t take a Ph.D in environmental science to understand how some portion of black people are indeed suffering from higher pollutant loads. But no one is saying the average black person is “suffering”. That’s your spin, not the Guardian’s. > [@](#): > > More generally, they could point out that air pollution of all types has decreased enormously in urban areas in America over the past few decades, and thus people of all races are surely much safer from health impacts. But that’s not the sort of thing that Guardian authors are hired to write. _yawn_ Conservatives are doing their very best to dismantle the regulations that have made such improvements in air pollution possible. Because of conservative bullshit, the pollutant criteria that EPA uses are not as protective as they should be, which is why"hot spots" are allowed to exist. If conservatives had their way, no one would be doing any research into the harmful effects of air pollution because we would all be expected to have a “faith-based” understanding of science. One that says if God had intended us not to burn coal, he wouldn’t have put it in the ground for us to discover. One that says if people don’t want to be exposed to toxic pollutants, they need to make better choices in life so they can live on the “pollution-free” side of town. So forgive me for not being convinced by your rather uninformed, politically driven dismissal of scientific facts just so you can proclaim that racism doesn’t exist anymore. You’re going to have to do better than that. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/82 "2019-03-31T21:12:21Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > To me what I see here is what many conservatives fall for, they can minimize the effects of one item, like the effects of contamination, or the effects of the racism seen in the drug war, or the results blacks and minorities get from the justice system, or the less opportunities they have on housing or jobs. However, that does not logically turns off the aggregated result of all that and other sandbagging that happens due to race. Sure it is better than before, but ignoring what still needs to be done, is like ignoring the forest in trouble for the few trees that they pick as good ones. A few days ago I attended an environmental conference. One of the panel discussions I attended was on environmental justice. It was actually the first time I’ve been exposed to the concept in a professional context. Usually when I go to a conference, I go to geek out on sciency things. I’m one of those unfortunate scientists who have always considered environmental justice to be a “social science” thing, not a hard science thing that is worthy of geeking out over. But the panel discussion was incredibly eye-opening. One of the panelists was a physician who talked about the disparate health impacts that have been linked to the environmental stressors found disproportionately in black neighborhoods. The thing that really was helpful for me was when she explained how this stuff happens. Are white people just thoughtlessly dumping their shit into black neighborhoods? Yeah, but it’s deeper than that. The reason why black neighborhoods are deemed “dump-worthy” is because they’ve always been treated that way, through redlining and zoning. People are just taking advantage of what’s always been, ignoring that “what’s always been” is actually institutionalized racism. So let’s say the city decided to construct a landfill and a wastewater treatment plant in a certain area back in the 1960s, back when that area was deemed “low value” due to the large concentration of black residents. Now fifty years later, when the power company wants to build a new transformer station, which area is more likely to be considered suitable for siting? The area that doesn’t have heavy industrial zoning or the area that does? It does not matter that the latter area has nice homes and residents who are concerned about their maintaining their property values. It doesn’t even matter that redlining was abolished a long time ago. The legacy of redlining still fosters discrimination. All the injustices working together create a horrible positive feedback. If a mother is exposed to the emissions associated with a busy roadway, [her child may likely suffer from birth defects](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4761511/). Because her child is non-white, they are likely to be treated by physicians who don’t look like them and [thus receive poorer treatment](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4843483/). They are likely to go to schools where they are [punished for the same acts that their white counterparts get a pass on](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/racial-disparities-in-school-discipline-are-growing-federal-data-shows/2018/04/24/67b5d2b8-47e4-11e8-827e-190efaf1f1ee_story.html). Because they’ve received an inferior education, they are more likely to wind up living next to another roadway (or worse). And sadly, they will find that their kid will be worse off than they were since their kid will have more defects than they have. So that means that even if that child is miraculously brought up in an ideal world where there’s no discrimination, their outcome will still be less impressive than those with a different legacy. Which of course will just give conservatives something to cluck over because it will confirm to them that all that racism stuff is a load a bunk. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2019, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/83 "2019-03-31T22:52:39Z")
I can say that when I, personally, fell into this category it was because I saw minorities as always being over sensitive to issues, and I defined “over sensitive” to mean “more sensitive than I would be under similar circumstances”. Strictly speaking, this was true. When I saw someone seeing racism in places where I wouldn’t think that racism was present, or at least intended, they were being more sensitive to it than I would be. But, I wasn’t taking into account the 100 times that something similar happened previously that led that person to be on the lookout (or to be sensitive, in other words) to these circumstances. So, yes, sometimes minorities are being more sensitive than white people. But this isn’t over sensitivity, it’s understandable differences in sensitivity based on life experiences. And if sometimes that leads to offense taken, when none was intended, that shouldn’t be particularly surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/84 "2019-04-01T01:23:21Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > It’s illegal to speak out against the government, for one. To be fair, it’s not enforced, but there’s nothing to prevent them from switching around on that. > > It is illegal to be racist or sexist. Not strongly enforced, but there is no protection against that being changed by the government, on any given day. > > It is illegal to scorn the religious. Again, it’s not strongly enforced, but there’s no defense against that. > > Profane, obscene, and sexual content are all currently legal, but there is no particular restriction on the government from deciding that you’ve had enough of that. > > There is no higher concept of freedom speech that trounces the whims of the day. The current law is the current culture. Given a position of power in government, even a minority culture could easily start to change those things. It’s simple law, not supreme law. As the UK became more tolerant, blasphemy, obscenity, etc. became legal. As it went past that into PC-land, racism and sexism and religious intolerance became illegal. When it edges back away from that, the laws will change again. It’s just culture codified, not a fundamental value. Yep, it’s basically don’t be an arsehole. Which is 9/10ths of the law. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/85 "2019-04-01T04:48:00Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > A few days ago I attended an environmental conference. One of the panel discussions I attended was on environmental justice. It was actually the first time I’ve been exposed to the concept in a professional context. Usually when I go to a conference, I go to geek out on sciency things. I’m one of those unfortunate scientists who have always considered environmental justice to be a “social science” thing, not a hard science thing that is worthy of geeking out over. > > But the panel discussion was incredibly eye-opening. One of the panelists was a physician who talked about the disparate health impacts that have been linked to the environmental stressors found disproportionately in black neighborhoods. The thing that really was helpful for me was when she explained how this stuff happens. Are white people just thoughtlessly dumping their shit into black neighborhoods? Yeah, but it’s deeper than that. The reason why black neighborhoods are deemed “dump-worthy” is because they’ve always been treated that way, through redlining and zoning. People are just taking advantage of what’s always been, ignoring that “what’s always been” is actually institutionalized racism. > > So let’s say the city decided to construct a landfill and a wastewater treatment plant in a certain area back in the 1960s, back when that area was deemed “low value” due to the large concentration of black residents. Now fifty years later, when the power company wants to build a new transformer station, which area is more likely to be considered suitable for siting? The area that doesn’t have heavy industrial zoning or the area that does? It does not matter that the latter area has nice homes and residents who are concerned about their maintaining their property values. It doesn’t even matter that redlining was abolished a long time ago. The legacy of redlining still fosters discrimination. > > All the injustices working together create a horrible positive feedback. If a mother is exposed to the emissions associated with a busy roadway, [her child may likely suffer from birth defects](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4761511/). Because her child is non-white, they are likely to be treated by physicians who don’t look like them and [thus receive poorer treatment](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4843483/). They are likely to go to schools where they are [punished for the same acts that their white counterparts get a pass on](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/racial-disparities-in-school-discipline-are-growing-federal-data-shows/2018/04/24/67b5d2b8-47e4-11e8-827e-190efaf1f1ee_story.html). Because they’ve received an inferior education, they are more likely to wind up living next to another roadway (or worse). And sadly, they will find that their kid will be worse off than they were since their kid will have more defects than they have. So that means that even if that child is miraculously brought up in an ideal world where there’s no discrimination, their outcome will still be less impressive than those with a different legacy. Which of course will just give conservatives something to cluck over because it will confirm to them that all that racism stuff is a load a bunk. Understood, but ISTM often those who advocate for awareness of this malaise do not elicit widespread sympathy in how they do this, myself included, because they focus on the effects of those who are victims and perpetrators without giving much visibility to the victims in the truest sense who do not oppress others. There are those who grow up in these conditions who then do not impose new lives in them, and I believe some agency must be ascribed for those who do since they are able to vote, after all, and we want them to exercise some sense of responsibility if they choose to do that… They focus on alternatives to punishment/removal for students exhibiting disruptive behavior and they ignore those who are on the receiving end only of bullying, compounding the victims’ dilemma. No matter the difference in scale, there are multiple power dynamics and only paying attention to one is cold comfort to the real victims. There are black people who are happy that a disparity like that exists because it helps them survive another day, though we should all awaken to the desire for restorative justice in the long haul. We should listen to what people who have been on both ends have to say, I just have a problem with the gilded perspective, their voices always being at the front of the line. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/86 "2019-04-01T04:53:06Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Overall, wealth is a better predictor prison time than race. (No time to find a cite right now, I’ll do so tomorrow.) There is absolutely no doubt that the whole prison system, courts, and policies sucks for many poor people. Making it less sucky for the poor should be a primary focus of anyone who wants to address racial disparities. Well, since you seem to question the fact of widespread racism, why exactly are blacks so much poorer than whites? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/87 "2019-04-01T05:12:51Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > They focus on alternatives to punishment/removal for students exhibiting disruptive behavior and they ignore those who are on the receiving end only of bullying, compounding the victims’ dilemma. No matter the difference in scale, there are multiple power dynamics and only paying attention to one is cold comfort to the real victims. There are black people who are happy that a disparity like that exists because it helps them survive another day, though we should all awaken to the desire for restorative justice in the long haul. We should listen to what people who have been on both ends have to say, I just have a problem with the gilded perspective, their voices always being at the front of the line. I think you are misunderstanding one thing, you are doing it with that bit about whites not getting the same punishment as blacks or minorities for the same offense, that is not a criticism just for the unfairness due to racism, but **also** the unfairness that whites that happen to be involved in crime or bullying are not then put away in the same rates as blacks and minorities do. Because then the following is also true: right now there are white guys that basically skate with their offenses (this is more egregious in the war against drugs), ready to do the same to more innocent victims. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/88 "2019-04-01T10:33:18Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > Understood, but ISTM often those who advocate for awareness of this malaise do not elicit widespread sympathy in how they do this, myself included, because they focus on the effects of those who are victims and perpetrators without giving much visibility to the victims in the truest sense who do not oppress others. There are those who grow up in these conditions who then do not impose new lives in them, and I believe some agency must be ascribed for those who do since they are able to vote, after all, and we want them to exercise some sense of responsibility if they choose to do that… They focus on alternatives to punishment/removal for students exhibiting disruptive behavior and they ignore those who are on the receiving end only of bullying, compounding the victims’ dilemma. No matter the difference in scale, there are multiple power dynamics and only paying attention to one is cold comfort to the real victims. There are black people who are happy that a disparity like that exists because it helps them survive another day, though we should all awaken to the desire for restorative justice in the long haul. We should listen to what people who have been on both ends have to say, I just have a problem with the gilded perspective, their voices always being at the front of the line. There are too many ambiguous “they’s” and "their’s’ in here for me to make sense of what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/89 "2019-04-01T17:44:19Z")
Let’s say your an employer. You pass on looking at job applicants with obvious African American sounding names. Does that make you racist? Well yes. But on the other hand think about how many employers with lots of experience hiring people, can size up a potential in just a few minutes and decide whether or not to hire them. So in this case many employers of small businesses have told me they have gotten that way because of bad experiences in the past with black employees. And thats even been from black employers. So are they still racist? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/90 "2019-04-01T17:53:56Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Let’s say your an employer. You pass on looking at job applicants with obvious African American sounding names. Does that make you racist? > > Well yes. But on the other hand think about how many employers with lots of experience hiring people, can size up a potential in just a few minutes and decide whether or not to hire them. So in this case many employers of small businesses have told me they have gotten that way because of bad experiences in the past with black employees. And thats even been from black employers. > > So are they still racist? Yes. Judging a black person negatively because they are black is very obviously racist. Were you of the belief that it is not? ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/91 "2019-04-01T17:59:53Z")
:smack::smack::smack: YES. :smack::smack::smack: ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/92 "2019-04-01T18:02:37Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Let’s say your an employer. You pass on looking at job applicants with obvious African American sounding names. Does that make you racist? > > Well yes. But on the other hand think about how many employers with lots of experience hiring people, can size up a potential in just a few minutes and decide whether or not to hire them. So in this case many employers of small businesses have told me they have gotten that way because of bad experiences in the past with black employees. And thats even been from black employers. > > So are they still racist? Yes, it is racist. The fact that you even have to ask this boggles my mind. You know…let’s talk about men. Since you’re a man. You know who is eleventy-billion more times likely to be a serial rapist killer child molester? A man. Who is more more likely to have a neurological disorder, low IQ, or learning disability? A man. My own experience has shown me that men are more likely to be derpy, jerkish, and nuts. At least you can fire a woman without worrying she’ll get revenge by mowing everyone down with an AK-47. Would it be sexist for me to throw all the applications with “male” names in the garbage can based on this information? Is it okay for me throw out all the applications with lower class white names? No Jolenes, Bubbas, Krystals, or Floyds. Cuz they might be trashy. Would you have a problem with an employer who would do something like that? Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/93 "2019-04-01T18:03:42Z")
Hopefully soon we’ll be able to link to a youtube cut of Mr. Nancy’s (aka Anansi) speech in the second season of _American Gods_. [Here is part of the first season speech.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCxFnVe6RiM) ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/94 "2019-04-01T18:23:18Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > All your “evidence” merely goes to show that the severity and type of racism in the US has changed over time, not that racism isn’t still a pervasive problem. > > Namely, your examples reflect the current US consensus that being **consciously and openly** racist is a bad thing (though I’d argue that even conscious and open racism is making a bit of a comeback under Trump in certain quarters). As DiAngelo points out in my above-quoted cite, this represents a **change** in racism—and, non-trivially, a significant reduction in the harm racism causes—but not **elimination** of racism. > > (And the notion that the popularity of black celebrities somehow indicates absence of racism is nonsense. Black entertainers like Harry Belafonte and Lena Horne were wildly popular in the 1950s, but that doesn’t mean that the US didn’t have a huge racism problem back then.) Something can either be ubiquitous and a crippling disease or it can be hidden and unconscious but it cannot be both. You are defining racism down. If you define racism as animus towards people of other races then the US has overcome this problem and is no longer a racist society. However, if you define racism as different races having different outcomes then racism is not and can never be overcome because people who are different will be treated differently. For example, white people are poorer than most Asian-americans, are arrested and imprisoned at higher rates, and are accepted at colleges at lower rates. Does this mean our society is full of racism against whites? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/95 "2019-04-01T18:26:17Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > If you define racism as animus towards people of other races then the US has overcome this problem and is no longer a racist society. Bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/96 "2019-04-01T18:26:27Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > Not just willful disregard but willful self deception reinforced by the media. > > This is the real “fake news” white Americans make up for other white Americans. > > For example : Take the sitcom Bing Bang Theory which represents Caltech a d Caltech Physics department to a great extent. All the cast is white except for the Indian who of course is someone mediocre who made it due to the money his parents have 🙂 > > In reality, this is the graduate population of Caltech Physics. [http://pma.caltech.edu/people?cat\_one=Graduate%20Students&cat\_two=Physics](http://pma.caltech.edu/people?cat_one=Graduate%20Students&cat_two=Physics) > > If you look through, the above cite : more than half of the population is non white. > > Then look at the Big Bang Cafeteria scenes - it’s all mostly whites 🙂 The show depicts professors at the school. The Cal Tech physics professors are 80% white and 20% asian. The stars of the show are 75% white and 25% asian. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/97 "2019-04-01T18:27:28Z")
I think that the use of categories like racist/not racist is delusional. If you think of humans in neat categories, subject to binary sorting, you are simply setting up justifications for your own prejudices. Your desire for categories is your version of justifying prejudice. One of them, anyway. Actually getting to know each person, or at least the pertinent facts about that person is a lot harder to do than to have a set of categories you prefer. To pretend that isn’t a judgement before the facts is self deception. Everyone has prejudices. Deciding to make decisions without relying on them is an effort. Being prejudiced is an equal opportunity thing. Race isn’t an achievement. There is nothing about it to be ashamed of, OR PROUD OF. You had nothing to do with becoming whatever race you are. If it is important to you, it means nothing actually about you is all that important, in your own opinion. Self expectation is a bar so low its only hard to get under it. Tris * * * Under race, I used to enter “100 yd dash.” I had to stop, when a friend of mine pointed out that was a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/98 "2019-04-01T18:30:12Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The show depicts professors at the school. The Cal Tech physics professors are 80% white and 20% asian. The stars of the show are 75% white and 25% asian. No they’re not professors. Sheldon - Theoretical physicist Leonard - Experimental physicist Raj - Astronomer Howard - Engineer Amy - Neuroscientist ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/99 "2019-04-01T18:58:34Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The reason why black neighborhoods are deemed “dump-worthy” is because they’ve always been treated that way, through redlining and zoning. People are just taking advantage of what’s always been, ignoring that “what’s always been” is actually institutionalized racism. A related problem is that white people don’t typically understand institutionalized racism; they think of racism as a group of confederate sympathizers burning crosses on someone’s front lawn or spray painting the word ‘n----r’ on someone’s house. No doubt, that’s racism, but the institutionalized racism is something that has inertia, something carried forward from generation upon generation of racism. Moreover, it’s not always so easy to see. The Civil Rights Acts of 1965 changed the law, but they didn’t immediately change institutions, many of which were staffed by people who still believed in white privilege, if not outright white supremacy. Environmental racism is a good example of institutionalized racism. Police brutality is another. Disparities in arrests, convictions, and long-term incarceration are another. Disproportionate punishment in schools, thereby starting the school-to-prison pipeline is yet another. I actually get someone like why ITR Champion asks “Why should I care? I didn’t enslave black people.” I get it - I really do. Unless we see overt signs of racism, what we have left is institutionalized racism, and you won’t typically understand it unless you have lived with it or been exposed to it in some way. It takes effort to understand what it’s like to be on the wrong end of bias. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/100 "2019-04-01T19:04:56Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Let’s say your an employer. You pass on looking at job applicants with obvious African American sounding names. Does that make you racist? > > Well yes. But on the other hand think about how many employers with lots of experience hiring people, can size up a potential in just a few minutes and decide whether or not to hire them. So in this case many employers of small businesses have told me they have gotten that way because of bad experiences in the past with black employees. And thats even been from black employers. > > So are they still racist? Hey man, if you seriously don’t think that the second scenario is racist, then you need to get off the Internet and actually take some classes on human relations or history or something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716.md?page=6)