# Why do so many of the people who identify as White have a hard time seeing the racism around them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 29, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716 "2019-03-29T17:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/101 "2019-04-01T19:06:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes. Judging a black person negatively because they are black is very obviously racist. Were you of the belief that it is not? He probably would acknowledge that it’s technically racist, but that it’s a justifiable form of racism because a) the stakes are high, b) it’s racism based on negative personal experiences, so it’s ‘understandable’ And to that I say, it’s still racist, and no it’s not justified. Beyond that, people who believe that it’s justifiable racism are typically not interested in helping a community that is disadvantaged by institutionalized racism. They’d rather move to the suburbs than fund black schools. They vote for people to cut their welfare and head start programs, but have no problem voting for more prison space to warehouse them. The cycle repeats itself. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/102 "2019-04-01T19:26:20Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Partly because we benefit from it and partly because we never see the negative effects. I wouldn’t even say we never see the negative effects, but rather that we can’t connect the negative effects with any _particular_ racist thing. I mean, when I ride public transit to work, I see a LOT of lower-income black people at the stations and riding the train with me. But I have absolutely no idea how racism affected them, based on what little interaction I have with them. All I see is someone who’s poor, and also happens to be black. I don’t know if they got cruddy educations, or if they were redlined, or if they had some kind of vicious circle of poverty behaviors going on. Nor do I know if they had everything relatively fine and just made poor decisions. That’s the other reason people don’t see the racism; they view everything through ‘their own color’ glasses. When a lot of white people see a black person who is poor, they evaluate that through the prism of their own experiences and make the assumption that a poor person has done that to themselves- in essence, they assume that EVERYONE has what we call “white privilege”. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/103 "2019-04-01T19:31:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes. Judging a black person negatively because they are black is very obviously racist. Were you of the belief that it is not? Ok, fine. Yeah I agree its racist. But lets say your talking to an employer who says this to you in confidence. What then would you tell them? Remember these are not people hiring for top level jobs but for basic, entry level jobs. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/104 "2019-04-01T19:34:43Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Ok, fine. Yeah I agree its racist. > > But lets say your talking to an employer who says this to you in confidence. What then would you tell them? Remember these are not people hiring for top level jobs but for basic, entry level jobs. I would tell them “Please don’t do this; that’s a terrible thing to do and you are contributing to harm to our society in general. It’s wrong to judge candidates based on their race no matter your past experiences. By doing so, you’re just helping make it less likely that black people will see hard work and ‘playing by the rules’ as a legitimate chance at success, and more likely that they will see the system as rigged against them and thus more likely they will choose paths that are outside of the system.” ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/105 "2019-04-01T19:36:43Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > Not just willful disregard but willful self deception reinforced by the media. > > This is the real “fake news” white Americans make up for other white Americans. > > For example : Take the sitcom Bing Bang Theory which represents Caltech a d Caltech Physics department to a great extent. All the cast is white except for the Indian who of course is someone mediocre who made it due to the money his parents have 🙂 > > In reality, this is the graduate population of Caltech Physics. [http://pma.caltech.edu/people?cat\_one=Graduate%20Students&cat\_two=Physics](http://pma.caltech.edu/people?cat_one=Graduate%20Students&cat_two=Physics) > > If you look through, the above cite : more than half of the population is non white. > > Then look at the Big Bang Cafeteria scenes - it’s all mostly whites 🙂 To be fair, it’s two white physics professors, an Indian physics professor, and a Jewish engineer (what exactly DOES Howard do anyway? He’s not a professor, so is he some sort of lab assistant?) ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/106 "2019-04-01T19:43:05Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > He probably would acknowledge that it’s technically racist, but that it’s a justifiable form of racism because a) the stakes are high, b) it’s racism based on negative personal experiences, so it’s ‘understandable’ > > And to that I say, it’s still racist, and no it’s not justified. Beyond that, people who believe that it’s justifiable racism are typically not interested in helping a community that is disadvantaged by institutionalized racism. They’d rather move to the suburbs than fund black schools. They vote for people to cut their welfare and head start programs, but have no problem voting for more prison space to warehouse them. The cycle repeats itself. No, I dont think so. Now yes, they dont want to put their kids in a bad school so they move to the suburbs. So what? What should they do? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/107 "2019-04-01T19:47:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I would tell them “Please don’t do this; that’s a terrible thing to do and you are contributing to harm to our society in general. It’s wrong to judge candidates based on their race no matter your past experiences. By doing so, you’re just helping make it less likely that black people will see hard work and ‘playing by the rules’ as a legitimate chance at success, and more likely that they will see the system as rigged against them and thus more likely they will choose paths that are outside of the system.” Ok, Thats a good response. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/108 "2019-04-01T19:54:14Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Ok, Thats a good response. Thanks. Please save this, or something like it in your own words, to use for the next time you encounter this kind of casual racism. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/109 "2019-04-01T20:05:03Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > No, I dont think so. > > Now yes, they dont want to put their kids in a bad school so they move to the suburbs. So what? What should they do? If you care about society then you do what you can to make sure there _are_ no bad schools. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/110 "2019-04-01T20:05:41Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I wouldn’t even say we never see the negative effects, but rather that we can’t connect the negative effects with any _particular_ racist thing. > > I mean, when I ride public transit to work, I see a LOT of lower-income black people at the stations and riding the train with me. But I have absolutely no idea how racism affected them, based on what little interaction I have with them. I am not diasagreeing with anything you have written, but I am curious what cues you are using to infer that they are poor. In most American’s minds, to be black means to be poor in the absence of the most obvious clues (like being a celebrity on TV). There are no wealthy and middle-class black neighborhoods–just poor ones. There are no middle-class schools with predominately black enrollment–just poor ones. This is the American mindset. Which is why it is frustrating when people try to deflect charges of racism by pointing to classism. No, the poor white dude and the poor black guy _don’t_ have the same blues. The poor white guy can subvert classist bullshit by adopting middle-class affections and accolades. The poor black guy can adopt middle-class affections and accolades, but he will still register as “poor” to those who have been programmed to equate blackness with poverty. Which is a helluva lot of people. [/QUOTE] Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/111 "2019-04-01T20:28:25Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Let’s say your an employer. You pass on looking at job applicants with obvious African American sounding names. Does that make you racist? > > Well yes. But on the other hand think about how many employers with lots of experience hiring people, can size up a potential in just a few minutes and decide whether or not to hire them. So in this case many employers of small businesses have told me they have gotten that way because of bad experiences in the past with black employees. And thats even been from black employers. > > So are they still racist? I don’t know what the best part of this post is: the clumsy attempt to rebrand obvious racism as good business practice or the attempt to evoke the “but black people do it too so it can’t be racist” rule that conservatives seem to be so fond of. I would also like to add that I sincerely doubt that ANY black business owner not named Herman Cain would discuss the supposed inferiority of black employees with someone like you. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/112 "2019-04-01T20:53:23Z")
> [@BeagleJesus](#): > > I don’t know what the best part of this post is: the clumsy attempt to rebrand obvious racism as good business practice or the attempt to evoke the “but black people do it too so it can’t be racist” rule that conservatives seem to be so fond of. > > I would also like to add that I sincerely doubt that ANY black business owner not named Herman Cain would discuss the supposed inferiority of black employees with someone like you. You really need to get out of your bubble. Have you ever worked say fast food or some other basic job? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/113 "2019-04-01T20:58:04Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > If you care about society then you do what you can to make sure there _are_ no bad schools. Well thats a noble goal. However my experience is with the Kansas City Missouri schools and I dont know what you can do to improve them. I find the best thing is to provide more opportunities for the families who live down there, to send there kids to a better school which basically is what’s happening. Families leave or sneak their kids into schools in the suburbs. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/114 "2019-04-01T21:14:14Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > You really need to get out of your bubble. Have you ever worked say fast food or some other basic job? I’m not the poster you reply there, but since I did those things and had once a minority supervisor, I can tell you that you are the one in the bubble. I had a very good experience there. When I later had a better job in an internet hosting company my white supervisor told his group that he thought that Obama was the antichrist, I did not last long in that environment. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well thats a noble goal. However my experience is with the Kansas City Missouri schools and I dont know what you can do to improve them. I find the best thing is to provide more opportunities for the families who live down there, to send there kids to a better school which basically is what’s happening. Families leave or sneak their kids into schools in the suburbs. Good thing that the Kansas City Missouri schools did not gave up. [https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article225276495.html](https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article225276495.html) What I found from other discussions was that just helping schools is not enough (and even though the situation is improving there, there is still a lot of room to get better) **what is needed is to also support the families and improve the home lives where the students live**. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/115 "2019-04-01T21:27:57Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I am not diasagreeing with anything you have written, but I am curious what cues you are using to infer that they are poor. Usually it’s stuff like inadequate clothing for the weather (i.e. it’s 20 degrees outside, and they’re wearing two hoodies and a scarf and shivering), or worn out clothes/shoes. Not homeless level dilapidation- these folks are always clean and not acting crazy or anything. There are plenty of people wearing “ghetto” type clothing, but that doesn’t indicate poverty. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/116 "2019-04-01T22:21:48Z")
I dont think people are born racist. They become that way thru experiences. sometimes that is simply thru a parent or some person in authority filling them with propaganda. Other times it comes from bad experiences with people of another race. Similar to how many people after WW2 would not buy products from Germany or Japan. Now how to turn those around is the real problem. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/117 "2019-04-01T22:54:01Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > You really need to get out of your bubble. Have you ever worked say fast food or some other basic job? I’m not sure what this has to do with anything, but ok. My only fast food experience was back in college when I was delivering pizza. Fun fact: the store manager called himself a gay redneck and the assistant manager I worked under was a popular local drag queen. Both were cool as fuck. And for the record I have worked with black, white, Asian, Latino, Arab and Native Americans. I have also worked with Canadian, Mexican, Brazilian, Argentinian, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, English, French, German, Austrian, Spanish, Dutch, Italian, Polish, Russian, Indian, Korean, Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, Filipino and I’m getting tired of listing these out so my apologies to anyone I have missed. I do live in a bubble, I call it Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Dacien](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dacien/32/5663_2.png) [@Dacien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dacien)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2019, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/118 "2019-04-02T04:07:44Z")
My opinion would be that the entire issue has much, much less to do with present-day racism, which is at an all time low, historically (we’re more inclusive, diverse, and tolerant today than at any time in our history), and much, much more to do with the historic oppression of minorities and the consequences of those minorities realizing stature in our society and questioning what we’re going to do about it. It’s hard to just let it go when your people were enslaved, lynched, and aggressively segregated on a massive scale recently enough that there are people alive who still remember it. _That_ is where the issue of race in our discourse derives from in America, 2019. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2019, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/119 "2019-04-02T10:06:45Z")
> [@Dacien](#): > > My opinion would be that the entire issue has much, much less to do with present-day racism, which is at an all time low, historically (we’re more inclusive, diverse, and tolerant today than at any time in our history), and much, much more to do with the historic oppression of minorities and the consequences of those minorities realizing stature in our society and questioning what we’re going to do about it. > > It’s hard to just let it go when your people were enslaved, lynched, and aggressively segregated on a massive scale recently enough that there are people alive who still remember it. > > _That_ is where the issue of race in our discourse derives from in America, 2019. I think if you just focus on the bad you will never get ahead. For every bad thing in the past many more times good people of other races have also been there. Thing is the game is still on. The old players have left the field and now we have new ones and another generation is waiting on the side ready to get into the game. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2019, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716/120 "2019-04-02T10:35:46Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I dont think people are born racist. They become that way thru experiences. sometimes that is simply thru a parent or some person in authority filling them with propaganda. Other times it comes from bad experiences with people of another race. Similar to how many people after WW2 would not buy products from Germany or Japan. > > Now how to turn those around is the real problem. You’re partially correct. People aren’t born racist; they become that way through their experiences, almost all of which are biased. To be more accurate, people aren’t born racist, but we’re almost certainly born tribal, and the people who raise you, the people with whom you associate most regularly are your tribe. And in the United States, tribes are historically formed along racial lines. To be sure, tribes can form along economic, religious, and ideological lines as well, but the thread that seems to underlie all of these in our society is race, and that’s because America is a nation that was founded on white supremacy and capitalistic exploitation of non-white people. It’s even written into the Constitution, which of course, we still use and treat like a bible to this day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-of-the-people-who-identify-as-white-have-a-hard-time-seeing-the-racism-around-them/831716.md?page=7)