# Why do so many people believe that Affirmative Action hurts Asians **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 22, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423 "2017-11-22T17:35:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/41 "2017-11-26T05:15:03Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > _Is_ it a zero-sum game, though? I don’t see a real reason unis can’t expand to cope with demand. There are logistic hurdles, but nothing insurmountable. Its pretty close to zero sum. If Harvard said tomorrow that they would expand their freshman class by 100 students and would reserve those seats for blacks, that would be 100 seats that others would not have access to. As long as only one person can sit in a seat its pretty close to zero sum. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/42 "2017-11-26T05:19:11Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The intent of destroying AA is to allow white college administrators the freedom to discriminate. Wait. WHAT!?!?! You think Affirmative Action is being FORCED on white college administrators? They’re the ones trying to protect Affirmative Action! > [@](#): > > I can understand how Asians believe that they’re victims of discrimination, but America has never been a color-blind society and probably won’t be anytime soon. One of the justifications for AA was to correct past institutionalized racism, but doing so also protects against future racism. By being racist against Asians? > [@](#): > > AA is an institutionally-sanctioned way of making sure that institutions respect the value of diversity. Removing that safeguard makes institutions like education more susceptible to institutionalized racism. Removing AA will at first seem like an adverse measure that affects African Americans, Latinos, and Southeast Asian immigrants. But the dynamics of racism can change. The Western United States in particular has been witness to horrific racism against Asians, particularly when they were competing with whites for mining and maritime commerce. So tell me about all the racism we are seeing in the University of California system after they made AA illegal in the UC system. Its been a few decades so the racism has had plenty of time to creep in and yet we see the administrators trying to sneak in AA under various guises on an almost annual basis. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/43 "2017-11-26T05:34:12Z")
> [@Lickety\_Split](#): > > I am STILL waiting–have been for over a decade now when I initially posed this question–to explain to me how AA is NOT simply reverse racism. So…since I believe it is and always has been, I think it harms more than it helps. And this dynamic is not limited to any one ethnic group. I won’t argue that the people who conceived of and launched affirmative action were doing so for racist/ reverse racist reasons. But in a practical sense, society is improved by things like this. It saves lives, reduces crime, reduces intolerance, etc. If the world was left alone, the children of the poor would receive parenting that included mostly poor financial advice (given that their parents are poor), they would go to the worst schools, all of their friends would be the poorest kids, all of the contacts and connections that they would have would be only for the worst jobs. Kids who grow up believing that they have no real prospects in life tend to exhibit fatalist behavior, engage in crime, and create poor babies out of sheer boredom and nihilism. On the whole, no good comes of this. Contrariwise, if you level the playing field for everyone, e.g. create a true socialist state, then you end up with everyone being poor, except those who embrace an economy of “favors” and “fixing”. But, between those two lines in the sand, you gas free the opportunity to retain value in working hard and honestly, while giving opportunities to those who otherwise wouldn’t have any. That all said, the sort of thing I’m talking about shouldn’t be linked to race, but it probably serves as some form of proxy. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/44 "2017-11-26T05:34:19Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > If it’s ‘icky’ to make people prove their ‘blood quantum’\* to belong to one of those two narrow groups, well the whole thing is icky Here is a thought experiment: If we said: “instead of this 1.5 trillion dollar tax cut, we are going to put this race thing to bed once and for all and put the 1.5 trillion in a pool and to be shared equally by anyone that is entitled to a share” Would we put recent Nigerian immigrants in that pool and say “well they were subject to racism too by virtue of the color of their skin so…” Probably not. it is only because there is no actual cost (from the perspective of those in favor of AA) to letting in the Nigerian immigrant. Would we let Hispanics into the pool? Probably not. Would we let the wealthy descendants of slaves with 100% slave ancestry into the pool? Probably so? I mean why wouldn’t you. This is reparations not needs tested welfare. So why does AA apply to all these people? Because the proponents of AA think its costing them nothing, but in fact it is. Those Hispanics and Nigerian immigrants are taking a portion of a pool of benefit that should be reserved for the descendants of slaves. Anything else is merely a melanin test for admissions. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/45 "2017-11-26T05:36:30Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > Do whites get affirmative action? I know they have legacy and other advantages I’m talking specifically about policies which give them points in favor on their applications just for being white. I ask because something doesn’t make sense to me. If Asian students outperform white students then they should replace the whites in the part of the student body not allocated on the basis of legacies or affirmative action. If the percentage of asian students remains the same despite their superior qualifications doesn’t that mean they are being discriminated against for the general spots? Why should we assume the percentage of asians would increase if more general spots are created by eliminating AA? > > What am I missing? Asians generally have to be better applicants than white applicants to get in. Some people think that there is basically a cap on Asian admissions and Asians compete among themselves for those 20% seats. Whites don’t have to compete against Asians. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/46 "2017-11-26T05:44:25Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > I’m not sure how affirmative action works for higher education. I’m assuming they don’t have quotas and are giving black and latino applicants “extra credit” somehow to bring in enough of those students to reach the school’s diversity goals. So students from those groups aren’t really competing with white and asian students. They are competing among themselves. If the school starts getting more accomplished applications from blacks and latinos they won’t need to give each as much extra credit to maintain their goals. Thus the percentage of those groups in the freshman class remains approximately the same. > > I am asking about the rest of the students and my question is this: if there are a lot of more highly qualified asian students being denied admission to colleges then how come they aren’t pushing out the white students? Yes, I know there are legacy advantages for a lot of white students but if the problem is as bad as people are saying then why aren’t asian students increasing their representation on campuses by displacing whites without legacy advantages? > > My point being that if asians are being discriminated against for these open spots now then why should they expect to increase their representation in colleges if affirmative action for blacks and latinos is curtailed? > > And again, I’m not claiming to have uncovered some profound wisdom here. I expect that there is an answer to my question but I’m not informed enough to know. I think your instinct is correct. A cap is not affected by the removal of a preference somewhere else. The cap on Jews at Harvard in the early 1900s would not have changed a whit if Harvard decided to give blacks a preference. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/47 "2017-11-26T05:51:28Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Is this what happens though? > > The impression I get is that the kids getting into these top tier schools (Harvard, MIT, Yale, Stanford, etc.) are all top tier kids (with the exception of legacy kids, who tend to still be pretty darn good). Harvard isn’t letting in black kids with a 29 ACT and a 3.5 and rejecting white and Asian kids with a 32 ACT and a 3.7. At the point where you reject 90% of your applicants, it often comes down to “we have six ranked violinist, and seven state Science fair winners, but here is a kid who had a set of unique experiences to bring to the school.” i.e. no one has objectively lower qualifications - except perhaps the legacy kids. Some kids might have subjectively lower qualifications. The SAT gap between Asians and whites is about 140 points on the SATS and the gap between Asians and blacks is something like 450 points on the SATs. That’s pretty significant. > [@](#): > > Even the objectively low qualifications is interesting - because objective measures aren’t all objective. We know there is a racial bias to testing - which is some of the most objective measures we have. But high school grades are also highly subjective - some schools just grade a lot harder than other schools. Some schools offer a lot of weighted coursework, other schools offer none. So a bunch of old white guys got together and figured out how to construct a test to help out Asians? Teachers (who are mostly not Asian) are giving Asians a preference? What advantages do Asians have over whites that justifies the gap? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/48 "2017-11-26T13:58:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If they are the best applicants, why not? “Best candidate” is subjective. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/49 "2017-11-26T22:13:55Z")
I find the whole thing makes a lot more sense if you take a step back. Given that there is no inherent reason why people of difference races should be of different intelligence, a fair, non-racist system should wind up with a student population that roughly the same as the population at large. If it there is a large difference, then racism must be at play. The entire concept here comes from assuming that the Asian students are inherently smarter and should wind up with higher percentages. But that’s the same racist idea as assuming that black people are inherently dumber and should take up a lower percentage. Quotas are bad because they don’t allow for natural variation across the various schools. But trying to roughly balance it out to the population is the only way to remove the racism that created the disparity in the first place. As long as AA is geared towards trying to match the population, the no one is being discriminated against. Only if they try to change it are they engaging in racism. Call it “reverse racism” if you want. That just means it’s correcting an imbalance already in the system. It is reversing racism to create egalitarianism. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/50 "2017-11-26T22:28:06Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I find the whole thing makes a lot more sense if you take a step back. > > Given that there is no inherent reason why people of difference races should be of different intelligence, a fair, non-racist system should wind up with a student population that roughly the same as the population at large. If it there is a large difference, then racism must be at play. > > The entire concept here comes from assuming that the Asian students are inherently smarter and should wind up with higher percentages. But that’s the same racist idea as assuming that black people are inherently dumber and should take up a lower percentage. > > Quotas are bad because they don’t allow for natural variation across the various schools. But trying to roughly balance it out to the population is the only way to remove the racism that created the disparity in the first place. > > As long as AA is geared towards trying to match the population, the no one is being discriminated against. Only if they try to change it are they engaging in racism. > > Call it “reverse racism” if you want. That just means it’s correcting an imbalance already in the system. It is reversing racism to create egalitarianism. It seems as if you’ve stepped so far back that you are unable to see the situation clearly. There is no “assumption” that Asians are inherently smarter, there is clearly demonstrated academic performance. You don’t have to go back very far in US history to see a time when mainstream attitudes towards Asians clearly assumed that they were interior to white people, nobody woke up one day and started making these assumptions about Asians. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/51 "2017-11-27T16:57:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Given that there is no inherent reason why people of difference races should be of different intelligence, a fair, non-racist system \*\*should wind up with a student population that roughly the same as the population at large. If it there is a large difference, then racism must be at play. \*\* This is where your assumption is off. There are numerous factors that go into who-gets-into-Ivy-League-and-who-does-not, and intelligence is only one of them. Other such things as culture, focus on academics, parenting, etc. play a huge role as well. > [@BigT](#): > > The entire concept here comes from assuming that the Asian students are inherently smarter and should wind up with higher percentages. Then how do you explain that Asians currently\* are indeed\* represented in elite universities as a much higher percentage, relative to their percentage of the general population, per capita, than black students? Did school administrators say, “We want more Asians and fewer blacks?” And then how do you explain that Asians _also have to score much higher than black people on the SAT to stand the same chance of admission?_ ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/52 "2017-11-27T17:03:11Z")
Finally, how do you explain higher Asian performance on the SAT than those of African-Americans? Are SAT officials purposefully doctoring all the score results to favor Asians? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/53 "2017-11-27T17:32:49Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > “Best candidate” is subjective. Only to a point. Harvard’s non-profit status depends on it being an educational institution rather than a social experiment. Academics are supposed to be the focus of its mission. But maybe I’m missing something. How do you explain the fact that the asian population at top schools has remained pretty steady over the last 30 years while the Asian population in the general populace as increased 4 times over. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/54 "2017-11-27T17:46:06Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I find the whole thing makes a lot more sense if you take a step back. > > Given that there is no inherent reason why people of difference races should be of different intelligence, a fair, non-racist system should wind up with a student population that roughly the same as the population at large. If it there is a large difference, then racism must be at play. Given that there is no reason why people of different races should be of different athletic ability, a fair, non-racist system should wind up with professional athletes with a player profile that roughly approximates the general population. if there is a difference, then racism must be at play. Oh wait. We only apply this sort of faulty logic when the discrimination is against Asians. So who are the racists that are trying to squeeze more Asians into the ivy league? Where are these evil old white men? Or has America’s institutions been taken over by Asians? How do you explain the fact that the number of Asians attending many top universities has remained relatively flat over the last 30 years but the Asian population has increased several times over in that same period? > [@](#): > > The entire concept here comes from assuming that the Asian students are inherently smarter and should wind up with higher percentages. But that’s the same racist idea as assuming that black people are inherently dumber and should take up a lower percentage. So I understand the notion that racists might assume that blacks are dumb. 400 years of death penalty for learning how to read would hamper literacy. But which racists are assuming that Asians are smarter? Why would a bunch of racists set up Asians to be smarter than whites? > [@](#): > > Quotas are bad because they don’t allow for natural variation across the various schools. But trying to roughly balance it out to the population is the only way to remove the racism that created the disparity in the first place. Quotas aren’t just bad, they are unconstitutional. It seems like you are conflating affirmative action and caps on Asians. Why were caps on Jews in the Ivy Leagues so universally accepted as wrong by the left, but caps on Asians are just a necessary evil in the pursuit of racial justice (because the racists in charge are trying their darndest to help the Asians get into good schools. > [@](#): > > As long as AA is geared towards trying to match the population, the no one is being discriminated against. Only if they try to change it are they engaging in racism. Wait, so you think that denying better applicants in order to achieve racial parity is not discrimination based on race? Its almost a textbook example of discrimination based on race. > [@](#): > > Call it “reverse racism” if you want. That just means it’s correcting an imbalance already in the system. It is reversing racism to create egalitarianism. So in what way are Asians benefiting from racism? I’m still trying to figure out why all these white racist institutions are trying so hard to elevate Asians above whites. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/55 "2017-11-27T17:57:01Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This is where your assumption is off. There are numerous factors that go into who-gets-into-Ivy-League-and-who-does-not, and intelligence is only one of them. Other such things as culture, focus on academics, parenting, etc. play a huge role as well. I think his point is that none of this NONE of it should play a role because if the world were REALLY fair, then there would be proportionate racial representation at these schools. Heck, if the world were really fair, 80% of Americans would be living on less than $10/day. > [@](#): > > Then how do you explain that Asians currently\* are indeed\* represented in elite universities as a much higher percentage, relative to their percentage of the general population, per capita, than black students? Did school administrators say, “We want more Asians and fewer blacks?” Whites are underrepresented at a lot of these schools. So the another question is whether school administrators said “we want more Asians and fewer whites” > [@](#): > > And then how do you explain that Asians _also have to score much higher than black people on the SAT to stand the same chance of admission?_ This one’s easy. Racism against blacks. And the system is rigged in favor of Asians because all those racists that control these majority white institutions are secretly rooting for those immigrant Asian kids. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/56 "2017-11-27T17:58:03Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Finally, how do you explain higher Asian performance on the SAT than those of African-Americans? Are SAT officials purposefully doctoring all the score results to favor Asians? No, they are engineering the test to help out Asians. I believe they make you fill out the scan tron by holding your number 2 pencil with chopsticks. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/57 "2017-11-27T18:12:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Only to a point. Harvard’s non-profit status depends on it being an educational institution rather than a social experiment. Academics are supposed to be the focus of its mission. I don’t see anything in the Internal Revenue Code that suggests their 501(c)(3) status is in jeopardy due to their decisions about who the best candidates are passing your undefined “point”. Perhaps you could point us to it. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How do you explain the fact that the asian population at top schools has remained pretty steady over the last 30 years while the Asian population in the general populace as increased 4 times over. How do you explain it? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/58 "2017-11-27T18:17:21Z")
I find it disturbing how many posters immediately react to any discussion of discrimination against Asians as an attack on Affirmative Action and are eager to throw Asians under the bus. I’m sorry that high Asian achievement has become an inconvenient fact in the argument for Affirmative Action but discrimination against Asians is not a necessary pre-condition for Affirmative Action. You can in fact eliminate discrimination against Asians while maintaining Affirmative Action. Blacks and Hispanics get about 20% of the seats at top schools. I think most Asians would be OK with getting a fair shot at the other 80% of seats but they don’t get that. On Affirmative Action. The average Asian admit has to score at the 99th percentile while black and hispanic students have to score in the 60th to 75th percentile for the same chance of admission. Now of course there are differences in background and stellar score form an upper middle class Asian kid isn’t as impressive as a stellar score from a poor black kid but go to these schools and take a look at the socioeconomic background of the black students being admitted. If you think the blacks being admitted are all the descendants of slaves that grew up in violent inner city environments then you’ve got another think coming. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/59 "2017-11-27T18:20:07Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I don’t see anything in the Internal Revenue Code that suggests their 501(c)(3) status is in jeopardy due to their decisions about who the best candidates are passing your undefined “point”. Perhaps you could point us to it. Sure it s the part that says it has to be an educational institution rather than a social experiment. Just like a church is supposed to be a religious institution rather than a political action committee. They may get away with it, possibly forever, but that is not their charitable purpose. > [@](#): > > How do you explain it? I thought I was pretty clear. These school have a de facto cap on how many Asians they accept. How do YOU explain it? This is like the 5th time I am asking this question in this thread and the answer seems to be a wall of silence. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423/60 "2017-11-27T19:07:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I find the whole thing makes a lot more sense if you take a step back. > > Given that there is no inherent reason why people of difference races should be of different intelligence, a fair, non-racist system should wind up with a student population that roughly the same as the population at large. If it there is a large difference, then racism must be at play. > > The entire concept here comes from assuming that the Asian students are inherently smarter and should wind up with higher percentages. But that’s the same racist idea as assuming that black people are inherently dumber and should take up a lower percentage. > > Quotas are bad because they don’t allow for natural variation across the various schools. But trying to roughly balance it out to the population is the only way to remove the racism that created the disparity in the first place. > > As long as AA is geared towards trying to match the population, the no one is being discriminated against. Only if they try to change it are they engaging in racism. > > Call it “reverse racism” if you want. That just means it’s correcting an imbalance already in the system. It is reversing racism to create egalitarianism. If all races have the exact same intelligence then differences in academic achievement are the results of effort or bias. Since there is no reason white males would purposely set up a system that advantages asians and females over white males, bias is unlikely to be the reason. Thus the more likely reason is effort. [Studies](https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2012/2012026/tables/table_35.asp)show that on average asian students do 63.5% more homework than black students. Why should schools give preference toward the lazy or the unmotivated? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-believe-that-affirmative-action-hurts-asians/802423.md?page=4)