# Why do so many people still believe in God?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 17, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965 "2022-04-17T20:24:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 10
### Author:  [@EverythingMadeEasier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverythingMadeEasier)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/181 "2022-04-22T15:54:31Z")
> [@Mijin](#):
>
> Just saying that something was uncaused doesn’t explain why it exists and why it has the properties it has, so, from a philosophical point of view, doesn’t do much to address the ontological problem.
Exactly. And there literally cannot be an answer to that … hence there’s always a good reason for any conscious beings to conceive god as one possibility … and given that religion – a story about god – can be far more appealing than ‘null’, it definitely explains with great conciseness why so may people still believe in god.
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### Author:  [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/182 "2022-04-22T15:56:11Z")
Ponder intentionality for a moment, if you will. The notion that anything, at any point whatsoever and whithersoever, happened _because some consciousness with a will wanted it to_. As opposed to happening because of prior location and momentum determining it.
We’ve done the debates about free will vs determinism _ad nauseum_ but usually those discussions are specifically aimed at us humans, whether _we as individual people_ have free will (and that, in turn, usually with a half-hidden subtext about criminal culpability and sin and punishment). But let’s kick it into the larger context, shall we? Has anything, anywhere, _ever_ occurred _because someone or something wanted it to_, or is it all a mindless intentionless clockwork of toppling dominos where both consciousness and choice are entirely illusory?
Posit, for the sake of argument, that such volitional choice exists — never mind where or in whom (or in what) it may inher. That consciousness, that choice-maker, cannot be unilaterally determined by the causal stimulus of the rest of what’s going on in the universe; at most, it could be immersed in some kind of mutual causation loop, right? Because if its choices and actions can be attributed to something else causing it, we’ve effectively erased volition and choice, yes?
So, moving onwards, it doesn’t make sense to posit that it somehow coexists with an external universe that is neither caused BY it nor CAUSES it, like they just occupy spacetime together without having any effect on each other, if you see what I mean. So this volitional consciousness, in order to exist at all, has to be exerting a causal impact on the entirety of that which is, that which exists. Even, as I said prevously, if it’s somehow mutual. So let’s explore that “mutual” thingie for a moment. Conscious entity and external surrounding universe, each constituting a causal stimulus to the other. Where, in this model, is the conscious entity’s _SELF_, actually? Isn’t “who this entity is” actually located in the interaction? I don’t mean to get unnecessarily woo about how the universe “is conscious” but if a conscious volitional entity exists at all, anywhere, and yet it is affected (stimulated, so that its responses are provoked by it, i.e., CAUSED by it) then the conscious self isn’t a property of the entity in isolation but of the entity in context. So the surrounding universe is a necessary part of what makes the conscous volitional entity what it is.
You may of course say that there is not, in fact, any volution, any choice, any consciousness, anywhere to be found. In so doing, you’re basically telling me you aren’t here, that there is no you, that you don’t exist, just a pattern of behaviors that are causally predetermined by a surrounding matrix of behaviors, none of it doing anything on purpose or by choice.
That’s not how I experience it, but that doesn’t make you wrong.
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### Author:  [@EverythingMadeEasier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverythingMadeEasier)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/183 "2022-04-22T16:00:32Z")
> [@RitterSport](#):
>
> You don’t need DNA for evolution – any time you have replication and mutation, with competition, you’ll have evolution.
1. All living things have DNA.
2. Evolution (natural selection) applies to living things. (Rocks don’t evolve. Every living cell has DNA. When else would convey the characteristics of that cell?)
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/184 "2022-04-22T16:07:44Z")
Some computer models use [evolutionary principals](https://www.philocomp.net/models/evolution.htm) to solve some problems. No DNA required. Any system that has inheritance with the chance of mutation, competition for resources, and time, will have evolution. No DNA required. You can see evolution in memes, jokes, religions, where “better” versions dominate existing versions.
That said, I don’t think our discussion will bear much fruit. I would recommend reading some books like the Selfish Gene from Richard Dawkins.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/185 "2022-04-22T16:41:44Z")
> [@EverythingMadeEasier](#):
>
> so why aren’t there thousands of YouTube videos by antitheists detailing those explanations instead of ridiculing belief?
Using the term “antitheists” for those that try to present their reason for disbelieving in gods, then calling “The God of the Gaps” argument very reasonable casts doubt on your claim of being an atheist. Is there some reason you have tossed aside the “We have not found the answer _yet_” response?
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### Author:  [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/186 "2022-04-22T17:00:42Z")
“The Devil can quote scripture for his purpose.” Whoever came up with that knew what they were talking about.
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### Author:  [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/187 "2022-04-22T17:13:22Z")
Spoken by Antonio in Act I, Scene III of _The Merchant of Venice_ by some dude named Shakespeare.
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### Author:  [@EverythingMadeEasier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverythingMadeEasier)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/188 "2022-04-22T17:23:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Using the term “antitheists” for those that try to present their reason for disbelieving in gods, then calling “The God of the Gaps” argument very reasonable casts doubt on your claim of being an atheist. Is there some reason you have tossed aside the “We have not found the answer _yet_ ” response?
I didn’t. I specifically said they don’t detail explanations instead of ridiculing belief.
I made no statement about the god of the gaps argument. I don’t even know what it is.
I said there’s no answer to explain why reality exists so people naturally believe in a creator.
“We have not found the answer _yet_" because it’s a logical impossibility … there can’t be an answer to ‘what caused everything’ since the cause is also part of everything.
I’ve been an atheist since March 15, 1972. 1 pm.
I say everything always existed … no beginning.
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### Author:  [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/189 "2022-04-22T17:28:04Z")
> [@EverythingMadeEasier](#):
>
> I specifically said they don’t detail explanations instead of ridiculing belief.
Why do you choose to watch those videos instead of ones where they do?
> [@EverythingMadeEasier](#):
>
> I made no statement about the god of the gaps argument. I don’t even know what it is.
Let me see if I can find a good definition.
> [@EverythingMadeEasier](#):
>
> I said there’s no answer to explain why reality exists so people naturally believe in a creator.
Ah, there’s one now. ^^
> [@EverythingMadeEasier](#):
>
> “We have not found the answer _yet_ " because it’s a logical impossibility … there can’t be an answer to ‘what caused everything’ since the cause is also part of everything.
Argument from ignorance is not a persuasive way to encourage further ignorance.
> [@EverythingMadeEasier](#):
>
> I’ve been an atheist since March 15, 1972. 1 pm.
And yet, you argue for the existence of god and insult your fellow atheists. Odd that.
You did such a great job in defining what the “God of the Gaps” is, I wonder if you could, in your own words, explain what being an atheist means?
> [@EverythingMadeEasier](#):
>
> I say everything always existed … no beginning.
Everything? So, the Earth is eternal?
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### Author:  [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/190 "2022-04-22T17:43:09Z")
Moderating:
It’s hard to separate why so many people still believe in God from the question of whether proofs of God exist, but in the strictest interpretation, discussing proofs is a hijack from the OP. Let’s try to make the distinction and stay on track.
This is general guidance for this thread. No warnings issued.
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### Author:  [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/191 "2022-04-22T17:46:33Z")
I wonder if someone earlier came up with something that basically meant the same thing? If so, their name has been lost to history.
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/192 "2022-04-22T18:03:30Z")
Here’s a head scratcher:
Astronaut Charlie Duke has been giving interviews on the 50th anniversary of the day he set foot on the Moon.
_On the triumphant Apollo 16 mission, he picked up a rock scientists reckon to be 4.46 billion years old — a relic of an ancient lunar crust that offers insight into the formation of both moon and Earth — and the long evolutions both have undergone since._
_Today, Duke says he believes Earth to be only about 6,000 years old, and the rest of the universe with it_
> **[The surprising voyage of Charlie Duke: An astronaut reaches for heaven](https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2022/04/21/apollo11-astronaut-charlie-duke-reflects-on-mission-and-god/)**
>
> The half-million miles Charlie Duke traveled on Apollo 16 was a prelude to an even more life-changing journey he made back on Earth.
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### Author:  [@EverythingMadeEasier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverythingMadeEasier)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/193 "2022-04-22T18:04:08Z")
“Why do you choose to watch those videos instead of ones where they do?”
?.. because I have to watch the video first to know what it’s about and I’ve yet to see any that state an explanation for the nature of reality. Have you?
“Let me see if I can find a good definition.”
“Ah, there’s one now.”
Yes. I understand why some people believe in god. I don’t.
I’m not a fan of the Yankees or homeopathic medicine. I certainly understand why some are.
“Argument from ignorance is not a persuasive way to encourage further ignorance.”
Where is the ignorance. What’s the flaw in the logic? Please justify that statement.
“And yet, you argue for the existence of god and insult your fellow atheists. Odd that.”
I don’t believe in god or argue for gods existence.
I don’t know why you drew that conclusion.
“You did such a great job in defining what the “God of the Gaps” is, I wonder if you could, in your own words, explain what being an atheist means?”
It means there is free will, everything has a cause – being physics, there is nothing supernatural – because if something exists, it must be natural (physics), there is no soul (Deepak Chopra is a con man), the nature of morality is cause and effect – murder is wrong not because someone says so but because if we say murder is ok then it’s ok for me to be killed, therefore murder is wrong because I don’t want to die.
My summary statement on morality is:
Morality is symbiotic threat management.
To those who say that everyone is born an atheist I offer that:
Atheism is not the absence of belief. It’s the conclusion that belief should be absent.
Re: Agnostic vs. Atheist
Agnostic means you think it’s NOT KNOWABLE … not that you can’t figure it out … it’s being confounded by the paradoxes of reality.
I’ve written hundreds of explanations and example on Quora about being an atheist. An important distinction is that atheism is a conclusion, not a belief. People who say there’s no god because ‘if god existed there would be no hurricanes’ or such are not atheists… they’re angry theists.
Atheists don’t hate the idea of god … they’re NON-god, not ANTI-god.
I am also a pro-religion atheist … if religion makes you more moral then I’m all for it – I actually know five people for whom religion helped them be fantastic people. But most do not approach religion like that.
> **[Randy Zeitman](https://www.quora.com/profile/Randy-Zeitman-1/answers)**
>
> I used to write good. But I worked at it and now I can finally write gooder.
“Everything? So, the Earth is eternal?”
Oh I see. No, I meant the universe is eternal.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/194 "2022-04-22T18:11:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> I can’t speak for other people, but I am someone who would be an atheist if it weren’t for some supernatural things that so far, to the best of my knowledge, have no natural explanation. I’ve shared some of them before in other threads but they are the only obstacle between me and atheism right now. Otherwise, my mind naturally leans towards atheism.
Why jump straight to the existence of gods, and not just to the possible existence of the supernatural, though? Were these events of such a nature that only a being of god-like structure could have caused them?
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### Author:  [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/195 "2022-04-22T18:19:39Z")
> [@EverythingMadeEasier](#):
>
> Deepak Chopra is a con man
What does that have to do with anything?
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### Author:  [@EverythingMadeEasier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverythingMadeEasier)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/196 "2022-04-22T18:22:32Z")
> [@DocCathode](#):
>
> What does that have to do with anything?
I’m demonstrating that people who claim supernatural forces exist are con artists, as the Amazing Randy demonstrated for decades.
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### Author:  [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/197 "2022-04-22T18:23:31Z")
You’ve demonstrated no such thing. To be a con artist one must be a conscious fraud. Many people who claim supernatural forces exist are genuine in their belief.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/198 "2022-04-22T18:24:36Z")
Do you mean The Amazing Randi?
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### Author:  [@EverythingMadeEasier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverythingMadeEasier)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/199 "2022-04-22T18:28:28Z")
> [@DocCathode](#):
>
> You’ve demonstrated no such thing. To be a con artist one must be a conscious fraud. Many people who claim supernatural forces exist are genuine in their belief.
Well I guess you’re right. He might believe it. Caveat Emptor.
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### Author:  [@EverythingMadeEasier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverythingMadeEasier)
#### Post date: [April 22, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-so-many-people-still-believe-in-god/962965/200 "2022-04-22T18:29:12Z")
Yes! Thanks.
And as a Randy myself I always think Randi is a girl’s name.
Ahh! Oh! I don’t know why I thought Randi was his first name!
And I didn’t know he was not born Randi, or Randy, but Randall. (Randy is my birth name.)
> **[James Randi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi)**
>
> Pages for logged out editors learn more
>
>
> James Randi (born Randall James Hamilton Zwinge; August 7, 1928 – October 20, 2020) was a Canadian-American stage magician, author and scientific skeptic who extensively challenged paranormal and pseudoscientific claims. He was the co-founder of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry (CSI), and founder of the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF). Randi began his career as a magician under the stage name The Amazing Randi and later chose to dev...
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