# Why do some discussion subjects defy persuasion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-discussion-subjects-defy-persuasion/241968 "2004-04-25T22:19:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-discussion-subjects-defy-persuasion/241968/21 "2004-04-27T23:02:34Z")
> [@True Blue Jack](#): > > “Conversions” _do_ happen, just not at a very fast pace. Someone once likened a person’s abandonment of fundamentalism or softening of a fundeamentalist approach to religion as a process like water eroding stone. Never in all my years of message board surfing have I ever seen anybody say “My, God, you were right! What the hell was I thinking?” no matter how compelling the logical arguments against their position were. 😃 A wise person once said “you can never reason someone out of a position they were never reasoned into.” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-discussion-subjects-defy-persuasion/241968/22 "2004-04-28T20:46:26Z")
My two cents: Persuasion is always based on appeal to shared beliefs and values (whether to an established system of logic, the importance of human life, the value of justice, etc.). Hence, to persuade someone, the topic must be sufficiently removed from the core of beliefs such that there are more fundamental agreements that can be used as a basis of persuasion. If the proposition is too close to the core of a person’s beliefs, there are no fundamentally shared beliefs that can be appealed to. This is why fundamental value questions are often not modified through persuasion (instead, they are modified through life experience, paradigm shifts, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-discussion-subjects-defy-persuasion/241968/23 "2004-04-29T23:47:39Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Never in all my years of message board surfing have I ever seen anybody say “My, God, you were right! What the hell was I thinking?” no matter how compelling the logical arguments against their position were. 😃 > > A wise person once said “you can never reason someone out of a position they were never reasoned into.” Nor have I, nor do I really expect to. The most you could reasonably expect to happen “instantaneously” is that someone may concede a minor side point, such as incorrect terminology. I’m talking about a long-term revision of views. As one example, just read what Meatros wrote, if you haven’t already. * * * No, wait. I’ve thought it over. You were right after all. What was I thinking of?! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-discussion-subjects-defy-persuasion/241968/24 "2004-05-01T08:27:46Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Never in all my years of message board surfing have I ever seen anybody say “My, God, you were right! What the hell was I thinking?” no matter how compelling the logical arguments against their position were. 😃 > > A wise person once said “you can never reason someone out of a position they were never reasoned into.” **Libertarian** has done that quite a few times. His beliefs regarding atheists were reversed by **Gaudere** for example. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-discussion-subjects-defy-persuasion/241968/25 "2004-05-01T18:03:46Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > I’ve changed my views significantly since I started participating on message boards. Debate/discussion got my mind working, I was trying to back up my arguments (confirmation bias, I know) when I literally stumbled across a website that shook my worldview. It turned out later that a lot of the information was embellished; but that didn’t matter, the effect took hold and I began to question my previously held beliefs-in a very direct and specific manner. I found that I could no longer keep these beliefs and I had to drop them intellectually; emotionally I tend to go back and forth a bit. > > So, do changes happen? Yes. Why don’t some changes happen? I think it has to do with comfort and what you know to be true (or, I should say _think_ or _want_ to be true). I’d be very interested in what changes you went through! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-discussion-subjects-defy-persuasion/241968.md?page=1)