# Why do some institutions get an opt-out clause for the law **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 5, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-institutions-get-an-opt-out-clause-for-the-law/751288 "2016-04-05T20:07:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-institutions-get-an-opt-out-clause-for-the-law/751288/21 "2016-04-07T17:01:42Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Agreed. If you are a rape suspect, you deserve to be in jail rather than in a University court/tribunal/whatever. [snipped] So anyone accused of a crime should be incarcerated? That’s not really how the judicial system works. I give no quarter to a _convicted_ offender, but false accusations are not at all unusual. We could always throw everyone into solitary confinement, but I’m pretty sure that would ruin a lot of things. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-institutions-get-an-opt-out-clause-for-the-law/751288/22 "2016-04-08T17:09:55Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Agreed. I’m consistently baffled when I read things about Columbia University. This is a matter for the criminal justice system. The University doesn’t get a vote. If you are a rape suspect, you deserve to be in jail rather than in a University court/tribunal/whatever. If you are victim and you didn’t report it to the police, you have no right to complain that the University didn’t resolve the situation to your liking. They aren’t a court, they aren’t equipped to investigate criminal complaints, and they should have no business in it one way or another. We’ve done this to death here, but a rape on campus is both a crime and a university disciplinary infraction. Nobody would argue that a university can’t suspend or expel a student for punching a professor or stealing a laptop. Similarly, the university can and should impose discipline for sexual assaults by students. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-institutions-get-an-opt-out-clause-for-the-law/751288/23 "2016-04-08T18:22:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > We’ve done this to death here, but a rape on campus is both a crime and a university disciplinary infraction. Nobody would argue that a university can’t suspend or expel a student for punching a professor or stealing a laptop. Similarly, the university can and should impose discipline for sexual assaults by students. The problem is that a theft or physical assault is pretty straightforward; not many people give away the laptop they use for work, nor consent to be punched in the face. Rape is a tricky subject - it’s not usually a case of some guy dragging a girl into the bushes, and the evidence boils down to he-said-she-said. I’m going to agree 98-percent-plus of such cases are very probably true, Duke Lacrosse notwithstanding, but our society still holds that a person is innocent until proven guilty. Unless the offense is very obvious and disruptive to campus operations, the ideal would be that the two parties to any dispute stay out of each others’ way, and attempt to finish the academic year. yes, Canadian tuition is typically only $5,000 a year, so it’s not like USA colleges where tossing a guy out on someone’s say-so could flush $50,000 in tuition down the toilet… but it’s still a weighty, life-altering decision. Plus the liability - given that even in cases where the accusations are true, the accused may not be convicted - what’s the college’s liability for expelling him if he’s found not guilty? ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-institutions-get-an-opt-out-clause-for-the-law/751288/24 "2016-04-09T12:48:32Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > The problem is that a theft or physical assault is pretty straightforward; not many people give away the laptop they use for work, nor consent to be punched in the face. Rape is a tricky subject - it’s not usually a case of some guy dragging a girl into the bushes, and the evidence boils down to he-said-she-said. I’m going to agree 98-percent-plus of such cases are very probably true, Duke Lacrosse notwithstanding, but our society still holds that a person is innocent until proven guilty. > > Unless the offense is very obvious and disruptive to campus operations, the ideal would be that the two parties to any dispute stay out of each others’ way, and attempt to finish the academic year. yes, Canadian tuition is typically only $5,000 a year, so it’s not like USA colleges where tossing a guy out on someone’s say-so could flush $50,000 in tuition down the toilet… but it’s still a weighty, life-altering decision. Plus the liability - given that even in cases where the accusations are true, the accused may not be convicted - what’s the college’s liability for expelling him if he’s found not guilty? But in the Canadian instances the universities have been essentially silencing the victim. And yes, in Canada you are innocent until proven guilty but that legal progress should be uninhibited by the school, not buried by a non-disclosure agreement. Again, if you took the case, replaced, University of Anytown, or Anytown RC Church, with Snord International Ballbearing Company or Snord International Boutique Hotels, nobody would even consider **not** prosecuting. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-institutions-get-an-opt-out-clause-for-the-law/751288/25 "2016-04-09T12:59:44Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Plus the liability - given that even in cases where the accusations are true, the accused may not be convicted - what’s the college’s liability for expelling him if he’s found not guilty? Nothing necessarily, as the burden of proof would be different. A university’s disciplinary process probably does not require proof beyond a reasonable doubt of a criminal offense (nor should it). It’s entirely proper that some people will be acquitted in a criminal trial, but still found to have broken the school’s rules, or found to be civilly liable (ask OJ about that one). ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-institutions-get-an-opt-out-clause-for-the-law/751288/26 "2016-04-09T18:21:54Z")
This is an old problem thats been mostly resolved since the Catholic abuse cases were all pretty much 30 years ago and up till then, yes they thought abusers could be “cured” by sending them to counseling. As for right now from what I’ve seen any and all abuse now goes right to the police. Now going back to the OP, its surprising how many public school abuse cases are covered up by school administrations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-institutions-get-an-opt-out-clause-for-the-law/751288.md?page=1)