# Why do some people think Utah may be in play?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [August 12, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583 "2016-08-12T18:11:23Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/21 "2016-08-15T16:51:21Z")
The thing about abortion being such a divide is that anyone who objectively looks at the facts can see that under Democratic policies, abortions drop, because we take the time to tackle the symptoms of abortion. Sure, some people will always see it as a moral issue that cannot be compromised, but if the goal is to reduce abortions, I can see enough people voting Democratic eventually to offset the self-righteous religious types
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/22 "2016-08-15T16:55:00Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> Just for general interest, [Clinton’s recent op-ed in _The Deseret News_](http://beta.deseretnews.com/article/865659843/Exclusive-Hillary-Clinton-What-I-have-in-common-with-Utah-leaders-2-religious-freedom-and-the.html).
>
> Trump’s will be published August 21st apparently.
My God. Whoever wrote that knows their shit:
> [@](#):
>
> With a new, outrageous headline seeming to pop up every day, it’s easy to forget that Trump showed us his true colors early on, when he proposed banning all Muslims from our shores.
>
> Trump’s Muslim ban would undo centuries of American tradition and values. To this day, I wonder if he even understands the implications of his proposal. This policy would literally undo what made America great in the first place.
>
> But you don’t have to take it from me. Listen to Mitt Romney, who said Trump “fired before aiming” when he decided a blanket religious ban was a solution to the threat of terrorism.
>
> Listen to former Sen. Larry Pressler, who said Trump’s plan reminded him of when Missouri Gov. Lilburn Boggs singled out Mormons in his infamous extermination order of 1838.
>
> Or listen to your governor, who saw Trump’s statement as a reminder of President Rutherford B. Hayes’ attempt to limit Mormon immigration to America in 1879.
>
> Instead of giving into demagoguery, Gov. Gary Herbert is setting a compassionate example and welcoming Syrian refugees fleeing religious persecution and terrorism. Once they’ve gone through a rigorous screening process, he is opening your state’s doors to some of the most vulnerable people in the world.
She did everything she could to say “Trump is anti-Mormon” without actually saying “Trump is anti-Mormon.” I especially loved this line:
“Trump’s plan reminded him of when Missouri Gov. Lilburn Boggs singled out Mormons in his infamous extermination order of 1838.”
Oh, snap!
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/23 "2016-08-15T16:57:23Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#):
>
> Sure, some people will always see it as a moral issue that cannot be compromised, but if the goal is to reduce abortions, I can see enough people voting Democratic eventually to offset the self-righteous religious types
For many, that “if” does not exist; For them, it is not about reducing abortions. It is about preventing sex, full stop. That, and punishing the immoral women. When Trump said of women who get abortions "“There has to be some form of punishment.”… he was merely echoing what he saw as the fundamental underlying truth of many of his supporters.
Trump can read his supporters very well - his only problem is that he says what they think out loud, without couching it in dog whistles.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/24 "2016-08-15T16:57:29Z")
> [@JohnT](#):
>
> My God. Whoever wrote that knows their shit…
Yup. Good stuff.
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/25 "2016-08-15T17:07:13Z")
> [@asahi](#):
>
> I think Silver’s right, but the data probably assumes that Trump doesn’t go so far over the line that he becomes a joke.
That ship has sailed, lifted off, achieved orbit, and warped out of the solar system.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/26 "2016-08-15T17:57:11Z")
> [@JohnT](#):
>
> Whoever wrote that knows their shit
I’m confident it wasn’t written by HRC.
I’m a Utah Mormon, and I see it as a wild fantasy that HRC wins Utah, even though I’ve got several liberal friends that bring up the possibility every time I see them.
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### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/27 "2016-08-15T17:58:33Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#):
>
> That ship has sailed, lifted off, achieved orbit, and warped out of the solar system.
Almost on cue, he does the one thing he absolutely could not do to further alienate an already-skeptical Mormon voting bloc. And I would guess that revelations that Manafort is now intimately involved in the dealings of Vladimir Putin’s Ukraine won’t help his cause. This is beyond being a joke. Trump’s campaign is an argument for why Americans shouldn’t be allowed to vote.
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### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/28 "2016-08-15T18:03:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> I’m confident it wasn’t written by HRC.
>
> I’m a Utah Mormon, and I see it as a wild fantasy that HRC wins Utah, even though I’ve got several liberal friends that bring up the possibility every time I see them.
I admit, I’m not a Utah Mormon and I have no idea what people out there believe. But none other than Trump himself seemed to be resigned to the fact that he’s really struggling to gain traction in Utah, so I don’t think that’s an insignificant development.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/29 "2016-08-15T18:05:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> I’m confident it wasn’t written by HRC.
>
> I’m a Utah Mormon, and I see it as a wild fantasy that HRC wins Utah, even though I’ve got several liberal friends that bring up the possibility every time I see them.
I didn’t say it was, but whoever did write that is working on an organization that understands a national campaign is 50 smaller campaigns, each with its own message.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/30 "2016-08-15T18:06:53Z")
> [@asahi](#):
>
> Almost on cue, he does the one thing he absolutely could not do to further alienate an already-skeptical Mormon voting bloc. And I would guess that revelations that Manafort is now intimately involved in the dealings of Vladimir Putin’s Ukraine won’t help his cause. This is beyond being a joke. Trump’s campaign is an argument for why Americans shouldn’t be allowed to vote.
I’ve said that this election and Brexit, when looked through the lens of history, might be seen as when people first started to doubt that democracy and nuclear weapons were a good mix.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/31 "2016-08-15T18:13:33Z")
(prediction for Trump’s upcoming op-ed in The Deseret News - assuming that Trump writes it himself)
I love Mormons. Great people. I have my properties serve only the best Mormon food. The best. I’d love to visit Utah sometime. People tell me it’s the greatest state, which is going to be part of making America Great Again!
I’m proud to be endorsed by Joseph Smith, who is a great guy by the way. A great Mormon guy, who wants me to win, because he likes winners!
And don’t listen to the media, because believe me, they’re horrible people. The worst.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/32 "2016-08-15T18:23:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> I’m confident it wasn’t written by HRC.
>
> I’m a Utah Mormon, and I see it as a wild fantasy that HRC wins Utah, even though I’ve got several liberal friends that bring up the possibility every time I see them.
So? Part of being a leader is getting the right people to do the right things, and her campaign is obviously well organized enough to hit one out of the park like this. So what if she didn’t write the right words, somebody on the team did. No I in team and all that.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/33 "2016-08-15T20:13:57Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> (prediction for Trump’s upcoming op-ed in The Deseret News - assuming that Trump writes it himself)
>
> I love Mormons. Great people. I have my properties serve only the best Mormon food. The best. I’d love to visit Utah sometime. People tell me it’s the greatest state, which is going to be part of making America Great Again!
>
> I’m proud to be endorsed by Joseph Smith, who is a great guy by the way. A great Mormon guy, who wants me to win, because he likes winners!
>
> And don’t listen to the media, because believe me, they’re horrible people. The worst.
P.S. Wait, your biggest lake is salty? Who decided to settle _there_? Sad.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/34 "2016-08-15T20:50:06Z")
Evan McMullin officially qualified in UT.
[http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/evan-mcmullin-qualifies-utah-2016-227016](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/evan-mcmullin-qualifies-utah-2016-227016)
ETA to add, from the same story:
> [@](#):
>
> Over the weekend though McMullin’s long-shot bid got another tiny victory: The Minnesota executive committee of the Independence Party voted unanimously to back McMullin. The party will be working with McMullin’s campaign to gather the 2,000 signatures needed to get on the ballot there.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/35 "2016-08-15T20:54:28Z")
> [@JohnT](#):
>
> Evan McMullin officially qualified in UT.
>
> [http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/evan-mcmullin-qualifies-utah-2016-227016](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/evan-mcmullin-qualifies-utah-2016-227016)
>
> ETA to add, from the same story:
What’s the deal with Idaho? Could he get on the ballot there? Sizable Mormon population in Idaho if I recall correctly.
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### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/36 "2016-08-15T20:57:40Z")
[CarnalK posted the upcoming deadlines and a link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19538285&postcount=12). Idaho’s due date is August 24th, 1,000 signatures needed.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [August 15, 2016, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/37 "2016-08-15T23:02:54Z")
As others have stated, maybe she personally wrote it, maybe not, just like speeches she gives. But clearly the thesis was one that she and her team agreed upon and her interest in and respect of Mormon culture is [longstanding and well-established](http://beta.deseretnews.com/article/865659952/Hillary-Clinton-wrote-about-the-Mormon-church-in-her-1996-autobiography-too.html?pg=all):
> [@](#):
>
> … this is far from the first time Clinton has made reference to Mormons. In fact, she wrote about the LDS Church in her 1996 book, “It Takes a Village,” which she mentioned in her op-ed piece this week when she wrote, “When it comes to religion, we strive to be accepting of everyone around us. That’s because we need each other. And we know that it so often takes a village — or a ward — working together to build the change we hope to see.”
>
> This is not unlike the title of her book. In fact, Clinton directly referenced the LDS faith in the text, too, as she discussed how much she appreciates Mormon family values, like family dinners and activities.
>
> "I admire the way Mormons set aside one night a week for family activities. When Chelsea was small, Bill and I adopted this idea. We took turns deciding what we would do. We went miniature golfing (guess who picked that?), rented movies, took long walks, played in parks, and did other simple activities,” she wrote.
>
> For the uninitiated, this is a reference to family home evening, an activity-based event Mormon families have where they talk about the gospel and engage in some sort of social activity with friends and family members. …
Her team recognizes who the Mormon demographic is and why the attacks on minority faiths and immigrants go against basic Mormon values and resonate with the history of the culture and how her campaign thesis of “Stronger Together” may hit some chords in a group that has historically also been “other.”
Correct me if I am wrong **HurricaneDitka** but culturally I understand Mormons to highly value community leadership and to abhor bullies. A marriage surviving infidelity is preferred to multiple divorces. There is some space for Clinton here, based on honest respect that she has for the culture and its values.
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### Author:  [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/38 "2016-08-16T05:04:23Z")
I would hope that Mormons hear Trump’s words about Muslims and take note. The religions have enough similarities that someone as non-discerning as Trump should be a cause for introspection verging on panic.
Long Wiki article:
> **[Islam and Mormonism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_Mormonism)**
>
> Islam and Mormonism have been compared to one another since the earliest origins of the latter in the nineteenth century, sometimes by detractors of one or both religions, but also at least once by Joseph Smith, founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, himself. Smith was also frequently referred to as "the Modern Muhammad" by several publications of the era, notably in the New York Herald, shortly after his asassination in June 1844. This epithet repeated a comparison that had been made Comparis...
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/39 "2016-08-16T13:28:34Z")
Fascinating. I’d never heard about any dealings or comparisons between those faiths.
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### Author:  [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)
#### Post date: [August 16, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-think-utah-may-be-in-play/762583/40 "2016-08-16T15:57:42Z")
Well they both start with “M”
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