# Why do some people want listeners instead of solvers? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 24, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838 "2012-02-24T14:18:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/41 "2012-02-24T17:38:25Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I guess I’m strange in that if I’m having a bad time, I don’t feel any better knowing that someone feels badly for me. It’s not about taking pleasure in knowing that they feel badly for you. It’s being reminded that the _reason_ they feel badly for you is that they care about you and want you to be happy. Knowing that I’m loved and cared for always makes me feel better. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/42 "2012-02-24T17:43:15Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Honestly, it seems to me, and correct me if I’m wrong, is that the teller of the problem is the one in control of the conversation. That a complaint about traffic is only said to solely illicit a requested response of empathy or sympathy. That the conversation becomes less of a two way street and an attempt at avoiding the conflicts in the future, but one where it’s simply a venting medium. > > Here’s an example: > > Person: “Today sucked, I was all excited for lunch and when I got to the refrigerator at work, someone swiped my tuna salad.” > > Respondent 1: “Yeah that sucked.” > > OR > > Respondent 2: “Yeah that sucked, hey I’ve got a cooler you can use to keep your sandwich at the desk so you don’t have to have your lunch stolen again.” > > Why is respondent 2 in the wrong here? It’s been referenced above the difference between a problem you want to vent about and a problem you want help to solve, but I’d like to spell it out further: In this case, the problem is “I had my lunch stolen at work today.” That is not a problem that can be solved. The lunch is stolen, gone, cannot be brought back, they went hungry after anticipating their yummy tuna salad. No action taken in the future is going to change the fact that they got screwed today. This is a vent. Commiserate, don’t try to solve. A related problem that CAN be solved, is “How can I keep my lunch from being stolen again?” If the venter seems like they’re also concerned about this problem, (“That’s the third time since November this has happened!”) then by all means, offer the cooler. But the key is, GIVE THEM TIME to vent first. Really. Let them vent, you might even leave them alone for a few minutes if they’re really mad, and then come back and say “Hey, I was thinking, I have a cooler you can borrow and keep your lunch at your desk if you like.” If you don’t let the pressure valve blow off steam before you try to close it, you run the risk of getting scalded. Sometimes, if it seems they’re venting and not looking to solve an ongoing problem, you might still offer your advice if you just ASK first, “Can I offer some advice?” If they’re receptive, then offer it. If they say “No, I’m just venting,” then, keep it to yourself. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/43 "2012-02-24T17:51:37Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Sometimes, if it seems they’re venting and not looking to solve an ongoing problem, you might still offer your advice if you just ASK first, “Can I offer some advice?” If they’re receptive, then offer it. If they say “No, I’m just venting,” then, keep it to yourself. Yes, it’s very rude to interrupt someone who is selfishly directing their frustrations at an uninvolved party with helpful advice. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/44 "2012-02-24T17:54:24Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Sure, but I think that’s kind of missing the point. The first thing that the sandwich victim wants is to be heard and validated. > > Lest people think that listening without comment only applies to someone who is complaining, it doesn’t. It’s independent of their emotional state. It’s just as important to listen when they’re happy. Or neutral. Well, I would absolutely do that first. I would say, “Oh, no! How awful! What kind of jerk would do such a thing? Has it happened before?” And make sure my friend knew that I sympathize with what a crappy thing has happened to her, because I _would_ sympathize. It’s not as if she left her wallet bulging with $100 bills out on her desk while she left her office for an hour – if it were stolen, it’s the thief’s crime, not hers, but it’s still a foolhardy thing to do. It’s not a foolhardy thing to put your tuna sandwich in a refrigerator. So I wouldn’t suggest she buy a cooler. I’d ask her questions to find out what is going on in her office, and if she wanted to talk/vent about it, I’d listen. If she didn’t, I’d just say I’m very sorry some jerk took her lunch. ---
**Author:** ![brainstall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@brainstall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brainstall)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/45 "2012-02-24T18:01:34Z")
Am I the only one who would be annoyed by someone pulling out a map when I complained about a lousy drive home from work? Unless I just got the job, I’m pretty sure I know how to get back and forth and have already considered/explored alternate routes. So perhaps it’s the solution implying I’m stupid is what bothers me, rather than the lack of an empathetic response. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/46 "2012-02-24T18:14:08Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I’ve never seen a venter stop himself and think “Hey, does the other person want to hear me go on about negative stuff?” Really, never? I do all the time. Being a good listener does not mean being a doormat. If the person endlessly prattles on about negative stuff, then absolutely change the subject or walk away. But otherwise listen, validate, empathize, and move on to a happier topic – which might involve a solution. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/47 "2012-02-24T18:20:15Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Yes, it’s very rude to interrupt someone who is selfishly directing their frustrations at an uninvolved party with helpful advice. “Honey, I got mugged on the way home. God, I’m still shaking. I’m freaking out. I can’t calm down.” “I understand the nature of your concern. Statistically speaking, adults are at greatly increased risk of mugging when walking alone after 6 P.M. Let’s figure out how you can leave work earlier. Also, did you come down Chestnut past that parking garage? If you take the longer way around the block, it will be more crowded and better lit, so you’ll be less likely to be targeted in the future. I’m sure you didn’t do anything wrong, but acting very confident and assertive can also be an effective deterrent. Once you put these measures into effect you’re almost certain to be safe in this neighborhood. Now let’s cancel those credit cards and find you a new cellphone, and it’ll all be over. What… why are you crying, you selfish fuck?” Normal people have feelings that exist separately from the thing that caused them. When they’re directing their frustrations at the “uninvolved party,” which is an interesting way to look at a marriage, they’re often talking about the feelings, and have already figured out the mechanics of the thing itself. People do that. I wonder what those of you who claim not to buy into this phenomenon do at funerals. “You know, I’ve been reading a lot about necromancy.” ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/48 "2012-02-24T18:24:01Z")
I’m a solver. And, I don’t like whiners. More guys than chicks tend to be solvers, as well. For that reason, I’m very glad I’m not into chicks. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/49 "2012-02-24T18:24:54Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > “Honey, I got mugged on the way home. God, I’m still shaking. I’m freaking out. I can’t calm down.” You’re right. That is totally equivalent to “I hate people who chew gum loud!” ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/50 "2012-02-24T18:27:56Z")
I’m dying to hear what kind of helpful advice you tried to offer for that one. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/51 "2012-02-24T18:30:33Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You’re right. That is totally equivalent to “I hate people who chew gum loud!” Nobody is saying it is. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/52 "2012-02-24T18:32:56Z")
Seriously. You were responding to a post about theft. If your idea of another person venting is something that cartoonishly trivial, either you deal exclusively with awful people, or you have a cartoon view of the world. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/53 "2012-02-24T18:42:19Z")
I think he’s deliberately trying to misunderstand. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/54 "2012-02-24T18:43:10Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Seriously. You were responding to a post about theft. > …either you deal exclusively with awful people… Not exclusively, but I encounter far more trivial complaints than those based on actual traumatic events. I’d hate to live your life if you encounter the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/55 "2012-02-24T18:44:21Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I think he’s deliberately trying to misunderstand. You do recall that the OP is about someone complaining about traffic, not an assault, right? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/56 "2012-02-24T18:47:01Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You do recall that the OP is about someone complaining about traffic, not an assault, right? Yes I do. I also remember that it’s about a stolen sandwich. Seriously, it’s OK to listen in any of those situations. ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/57 "2012-02-24T18:47:05Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I too am a solver and I’ve gotten those sorts of responses but, fortunately, I think I figured out what the fundamental disconnect was and I’ll see if I can explain it. The reason a solution can often be perceived badly is because it’s a solution to the wrong problem. It’s the same way that a relatively small slight in a relationship can quickly grow into an argument and one or both people are left wondering why the other person was so upset about something so minor. Sure, some people are serial complainers and they thrive on drama and dominating conversation, and I do advise staying away from those people, but I think most of the time it’s simply a misunderstanding of what the person is really upset about. > > Take the traffic example from the OP. Yes, the person was complaining about traffic, but it wasn’t the traffic that was the real problem, it was likely more that the person had a stressful day. Sure, they sucked at really expressing what the real problem is, and being stressed didn’t help and doesn’t help their reaction, but when you provide a solution to a problem other than the one that the person is really uspet about, they feel unheard. The real solution to a stressful day really is just to listen and help to soothe that person. Chances are there were a little of minor annoyances and it focuses on the traffic just because that is the most recent one in that persons mind and seems worse because they were already stressed from everything else. > > Or take the lunch example that **stpauler** gives. Yes, the person is upset about their lunch, but it’s problem as much or more about the fact that they feel betrayed and disrespected by whoever swipped their lunch. Sure, you can take a step to make it harder for people to do that, but it doesn’t fix the real underlying problem. Further, it makes that problem worse because now they have to go out of their way to handles someone else being an ass when they shouldn’t have to. So, again, the second person isn’t wrong, they just responded to the surface problem without addressing the underlying issue. And because the underlying one wasn’t acknowledged or addressed, they don’t feel heard or helped and may even feel worse off because of this additional burden of having to protect their lunch. > > Or to use an example from my own life, as a solver myself, I remember in the days and weeks following a particularly bad break-up with my fiancee I had and a lot of the responses I got were along the lines of “well, at least you found out now rather than after you got married.” I never lashed out at anyone or anything because I knew they were just trying to help, but it really made me more upset. I didn’t need to hear that I dodged a bullet, I needed help addressing the hurt that had resulted from the situation. > > The thing is, as a solver, I’ve found I can still generally give advice on the surface problem, I just need to make sure I acknowledge and address the real problem too. Like with the lunch example again, what if the response was more like “Yeah, that sucks that you can’t trust your coworkers.” THEN go on to give advice about how to minimize the impact of that trust which very well may include bringing a cooler to work. > > So, yeah, it’s really just a break down in communication, they either suck at saying what’s really bothering them or aren’t sure what it is or aren’t aware it’s something deeper, and you don’t pick up on what’s really bothering them, and you end up talking past eachother. Wow. This may be one of the best posts I have ever read here on the topic of communication. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/58 "2012-02-24T18:53:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You do recall that the OP is about someone complaining about traffic, not an assault, right? Most of the people who vent to me in person are either my spouse, close friends, or family, with occasional complaints from close coworkers. Presumably, I care about it when these people have a bad day, even if their complaints seem trivial to me. So, what does it cost me to give them some sympathy or just listen? It seems to make them feel better, and it doesn’t cost me anything but a little time. Obviously, if you’re dealing with someone who complains incessantly about everything, it gets old, but listening to occasional venting, even if it is about an annoying coworker who was humming all day, doesn’t seem like that onerous a chore. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/59 "2012-02-24T18:54:54Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Yes I do. I also remember that it’s about a stolen sandwich. > > Seriously, it’s OK to listen in any of those situations. I have no objection to listening. I just don’t like people burdening me with their problems. I didn’t cause the traffic or steal your sandwich, and I wouldn’t let those things ruin the rest of my day, or burden others with my problem if they did. God invented alcohol for a reason. People who need to vent about their trivial personal problems ought to get drunk first and at least be entertaining when they do it. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838/60 "2012-02-24T18:58:45Z")
> [@Brynda](#): > > Wow. This may be one of the best posts I have ever read here on the topic of communication. Agreed, big thumbs up to **Blaster Master** as that post finally made it sink into my thick skull! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-people-want-listeners-instead-of-solvers/613838.md?page=4)