# why do some place names take a "the"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 24, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733 "2019-09-24T00:41:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/21 "2019-09-24T15:14:13Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > To avoid confusion with other schools [OSU became The Ohio State University.](https://www.quora.com/Is-The-Ohio-State-University-called-THE-Ohio-State-University-outside-of-an-athletic-context) What; were there other Ohio State Universities? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/22 "2019-09-24T15:23:07Z")
Most monolingual Americans don’t recognize the “the” in Spanish names for American cities. Just like Havana is a shortening so is El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula, which in English is town of our lady the Queen of Angels of the River Porciúncula.\* Las Vegas, OTOH, is simply the Meadows. El Paso originally was El Paso del Norte at what is now Ciudad Juárez, Mexico. \*Other sources insist it is only El Pueblo de la Reyna de los Angeles. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/23 "2019-09-24T15:28:00Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > What; were there other Ohio State Universities? The state university system of Ohio has 14 universities, including Ohio University, which was founded long before OSU, a land-grant university. Ohio and Ohio State are like Michigan and Michigan State or Mississippi and Mississippi State or Montana and Montana State. You need to make a distinction. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/24 "2019-09-24T15:31:17Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > There are only two countries in the world who officially use “the” as part of their names, those being The Bahamas and The Gambia (at least according to Wiki). As a matter of habit, some other countries are addressed using the definite article (Netherlands, United Kingdom, United States, etc., which have an implied plural). Then there are countries where “the” is included somewhere in the name, such as Republic of the Congo, often shortened to The Congo. And some are just habits of language, like Sudan or Czech Republic. Are you sure about that? For instance, perusing the [official names of the United Nations membership](https://www.un.int/protocol/sites/www.un.int/files/Protocol%20and%20Liaison%20Service/officialnamesofcountries.pdf) reveals many Official Names containing “the”. What is the difference between “Union of the Comoros” and “Commonwealth of the Bahamas” , or between “Islamic Republic of the Gambia” and “Republic of the Niger”? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/25 "2019-09-24T15:33:52Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The state university system of Ohio has 14 universities, including Ohio University, which was founded long before OSU, a land-grant university. > > Ohio and Ohio State are like Michigan and Michigan State or Mississippi and Mississippi State or Montana and Montana State. You need to make a distinction. Yes, there are other state universities/college in Ohio, but there’s only one Ohio State University. Where’s the name confusion, and how does adding “the” in front of the name change it? When one says “Ohio State University” or simply, “Ohio State,” there is only one school that comes to mind, as far as my experience goes. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/26 "2019-09-24T16:00:02Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Are you sure about that? For instance, perusing the [official names of the United Nations membership](https://www.un.int/protocol/sites/www.un.int/files/Protocol%20and%20Liaison%20Service/officialnamesofcountries.pdf) reveals many Official Names containing “the”. What is the difference between “Union of the Comoros” and “Commonwealth of the Bahamas” , or between “Islamic Republic of the Gambia” and “Republic of the Niger”? Please reread for content. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/27 "2019-09-24T16:09:50Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yes, there are other state universities/college in Ohio, but there’s only one Ohio State University. Where’s the name confusion, and how does adding “the” in front of the name change it? When one says “Ohio State University” or simply, “Ohio State,” there is only one school that comes to mind, as far as my experience goes. That’s true today. The question is whether it was true throughout history, since these are historic names. Surely in the 1870s, after Ohio State joined Ohio, there must have been some confusion when mentioning the names. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/28 "2019-09-24T16:11:17Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > What; were there other Ohio State Universities? Oregon State University. Hint: It’s in the link. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/29 "2019-09-24T16:12:39Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yes, there are other state universities/college in Ohio, but there’s only one Ohio State University. Where’s the name confusion, and how does adding “the” in front of the name change it? When one says “Ohio State University” or simply, “Ohio State,” there is only one school that comes to mind, as far as my experience goes. See Post above. By referring to just OSU in an article it can be misleading as there are other OSU’s. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/30 "2019-09-24T16:20:18Z")
The wiki page for The Gambia says: “According to the CIA World Factbook, the United States Department of State, the Times Comprehensive Atlas of the World and the Permanent Committee on Geographical Names for British Official Use, The Gambia is one of two countries whose self-standing short name for official use should begin with the word “The” (the other being the Bahamas). Habitually, the definite article is sometimes still used when addressing many other countries, including Ukraine, Netherlands, Philippines, Congo, Sudan, Yemen, Comoros, Central African Republic, Seychelles, Maldives, Solomon Islands, Dominican Republic, Czech Republic, Marshall Islands, United Kingdom, United States of America and Lebanon, with varying degrees of accuracy.” And it’s true for the CIA World Fact Book only those two are listed as ‘name, The’ in the index. However the ‘degree of accuracy’ in using it elsewhere varies a lot it would seem. It seems rare in common use to drop it for other island chain countries for example, whereas it’s now archaic to include it for Lebanon at least in American usage, and as mentioned Ukraine has an acute sensitivity to it based on Putin’s policies in turn based on ‘you’re not really a country’, and they view the ‘the’ as implying a region (or literally ‘the borderland [of Russia]’) not a country. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/31 "2019-09-24T16:22:20Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Maybe not, but there’s a city in Oregon called [The Dalles.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dalles,_Oregon) There’s even a neighborhood there called [East The Dalles.](https://nextdoor.com/neighborhood/eastthedalles--the-dalles--or/) And there’s a place in Wisconsin called “The Dells,” which shares the root of its name with the Oregon city. They’re both named after rapids, which is _dalles_ in French. The WI city is actually “The Wisconsin Dells,” but usually it’s shortened to “The Dells.” ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/32 "2019-09-24T16:23:23Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > The worst I’ve seen like this is restaurants that offer a dish “with au jus sauce” That is almost physically painful for me to read. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/33 "2019-09-24T16:50:58Z")
What about “The Hague”? And this is why Southern Californians [use “the” with freeways](https://www.kcet.org/shows/lost-la/the-5-the-101-the-405-why-southern-californians-love-saying-the-before-freeway-numbers). Incidentally I was not offered a job in Denver because I called the Colorado interstate “the 25” I was told I sounded like I was from Los Angeles and I would not get the job. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/34 "2019-09-24T17:02:02Z")
> [@EdelweissPirate](#): > > And there’s a place in Wisconsin called “The Dells,” which shares the root of its name with the Oregon city. They’re both named after rapids, which is _dalles_ in French. > > The WI city is actually “The Wisconsin Dells,” but usually it’s shortened to “The Dells.” Actually, the city is just [Wisconsin Dells.](https://www.wisdells.com/wisconsin-dells.htm) The [name of the geographical feature](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dells_of_the_Wisconsin_River) is often preceded by “the,” but that article isn’t capitalized (unless starting a sentence), suggesting it’s not part of the formal name. Kind of like the Rocky Mountains. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/35 "2019-09-24T17:08:21Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > What about “The Hague”? As I said way back in post #8, that’s a partial translation. In Dutch it’s Den Haag, meaning The Hedge. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/36 "2019-09-24T18:03:24Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > ‘Ukraine’ means borderland or marshes so if you’re talking about it ‘the’ is necessary because English. The people I encounter who always use the “the” are over 50. A bit like saying “the Nintendo” 😃 > [@DPRK](#): > > Are you sure about that? For instance, perusing the [official names of the United Nations membership](https://www.un.int/protocol/sites/www.un.int/files/Protocol%20and%20Liaison%20Service/officialnamesofcountries.pdf) reveals many Official Names containing “the”. What is the difference between “Union of the Comoros” and “Commonwealth of the Bahamas” , or between “Islamic Republic of the Gambia” and “Republic of the Niger”? It’s the republics which are of the Gambia and Niger rivers. The Comoros are a group of islands, none of which are named Comoros, same for the Bahamas. It’s the States that are United in America, not the nation of America, which has some united states attached. In the former cases it’s the geographical feature that’s prominent, in the latter the composition of the government. > [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Oregon State University. Hint: It’s in the link. 😃 I hear OSU for both, one becomes more likely depending on where you live. “THE” OSU is famously litigious about their name branding. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/37 "2019-09-24T18:32:28Z")
It’s more common in Spanish than in English, but just as arbitrary. You say El Peru and El Paraguay, but just Chile and Argentina, for example. To confuse matters more, people will often sometimes omit the article even if it is commonly used. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/38 "2019-09-24T18:43:30Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > See Post above. By referring to just OSU in an article it can be misleading as there are other OSU’s. OK, I’m not sure what that has to do anything with my post. I never brought up “OSU.” ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/39 "2019-09-24T19:31:38Z")
Those of us in the USA, take a look at your money: on coins, it’s “United States of America”, but on paper money it’s “The United States of America”. The “the” is probably left off of coins due to space, but just another example of inconsistency. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733/40 "2019-09-24T19:51:15Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Actually, the city is just [Wisconsin Dells.](https://www.wisdells.com/wisconsin-dells.htm) [Nope](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dells_of_the_Wisconsin_River). I mean, I guess some people drop the article, but most don’t. I lived in Madison, WI for about a decade. Madison is the nearest city to the Dells. Colloquially, we just said “the Dells.” You’re right that the city is officially “Wisconsin Dells,” but one commonly hears “The Wisconsin Dells.” Common usage can differ from official usage. I mean, Apple religiously drops articles for their products, talking about the amazing camera performance of iPhone 11, but I always use an article in brazen defiance of Apple’s PR stylebook. (Coincidentally, I moved from Madison to Portland, OR—each city is roughly the same distance from its state’s dalles/dells). ETA: Yes, you made a distinction between the feature name (which takes the article) and the town name (which officially doesn’t). But my point is that the distinction is a lot blurrier in everyday usage than your post implies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-place-names-take-a-the/840733.md?page=3)