# Why do some states have open primaries? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669 "2008-01-15T22:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/41 "2008-01-17T19:59:41Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] But that wasn’t the issue I was raising, which was that there’s no way to deny a party the option of running, and paying for, their own primary. I mean, how would you stop them - forbid them from renting locations where people could vote? Turn firehoses on their poll workers? I’m missing something here. [/QUOTE] Yes, because you’re fixating on presidential primaries, rather than primaries for state offices and Congress. States most certainly exercise the power to require parties to nominate by primary for state offices and Congress, by denying them ballot access if they do otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/42 "2008-01-17T20:49:02Z")
[QUOTE=Freddy the Pig] States most certainly exercise the power to require parties to nominate by primary for state offices and Congress, by denying them ballot access if they do otherwise. [/QUOTE] What states do that? ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/43 "2008-01-17T21:02:55Z")
[QUOTE=Telemark] What states do that? [/QUOTE] Almost all of them. To quote from the [election statutes of Illinois](http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=001000050HArt%2E+7&ActID=170&ChapAct=10%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B5%2F&ChapterID=3&ChapterName=ELECTIONS&SectionID=36401&SeqStart=30200000&SeqEnd=38500000&ActName=Election+Code%2E) (my emphasis): > [@](#): > > ARTICLE 7. THE MAKING OF NOMINATIONS BY POLITICAL PARTIES > > (a) Except as otherwise provided in this Article, the nomination of all candidates for all elective State, congressional, judicial, and county officers, State’s Attorneys (whether elected from a single county or from more than one county), city, village, and incorporated town and municipal officers, trustees of sanitary districts, township officers in townships of over 5,000 population coextensive with or included wholly within cities or villages not under the commission form of government, precinct, township, ward, and State central committeemen, and delegates and alternate delegates to national nominating conventions by all political parties, as defined in Section 7‑2 of this Article 7, **shall be made in the manner provided in this Article 7 and not otherwise**. . . . > > Sec. 7‑5. (a) Primary elections shall be held on the dates prescribed in Article 2A. > . . . > Sec. 7‑59. (a) The person receiving the highest number of votes at a primary as a candidate of a party for the nomination for an office shall be the candidate of that party for such office, and his name as such candidate shall be placed on the official ballot at the election then next ensuing; provided, that where there are two or more persons to be nominated for the same office or board, the requisite number of persons receiving the highest number of votes shall be nominated and their names shall be placed on the official ballot at the following election. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/44 "2008-01-17T21:14:47Z")
[QUOTE=Freddy the Pig] Yes, because you’re fixating on presidential primaries, rather than primaries for state offices and Congress. [/QUOTE] That was the kind of primary the OP discussed. You call it ‘fixating,’ I call it ‘staying on topic.’ Not that the topic of a thread can’t wander. But just because _you’re_ wandering, doesn’t mean you can expect others to wander in the same direction. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/45 "2008-01-17T21:21:10Z")
I notice that the Illinois statute you cite, **Freddy** , applies to “delegates and alternate delegates to national nominating conventions by all political parties.” It may be the law of the state of Illinois, but I’d like to see how they’d enforce it, if one of the major parties opted to choose its delegates by caucus or at a state convention. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/46 "2008-01-17T21:31:43Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] It may be the law of the state of Illinois, but I’d like to see how they’d enforce it, if one of the major parties opted to choose its delegates by caucus or at a state convention. [/QUOTE] Fail to allow the person selected that way on the ballot? ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/47 "2008-01-17T21:34:09Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] It may be the law of the state of Illinois, but I’d like to see how they’d enforce it, if one of the major parties opted to choose its delegates by caucus or at a state convention. [/QUOTE] I agree; in the specific case of delegates to a presidential nominating convention, such a law is unenforceable, because the national party convention is the final authority on seating delegates. But the law is easily enforceable in all other cases–the state, after all, is the final authority in placing names on the November ballot. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/48 "2008-01-18T02:34:03Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Fail to allow the person selected that way on the ballot? [/QUOTE] They could, in theory. In practice, the publicity would be so fast, so strong, and so negative that they’d change their tune in a heartbeat. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/49 "2008-01-20T03:44:10Z")
And tonight’s SC primary adds to my point. Republicans in a Republican primary preferred Huckabee, but independents who could give two shits about the Republican party puts McCain over the top. Why is this allowed? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/50 "2008-01-20T04:10:23Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] And tonight’s SC primary adds to my point. Republicans in a Republican primary preferred Huckabee… [/QUOTE] Can I get a link for this please? ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/51 "2008-01-22T00:13:57Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] And tonight’s SC primary adds to my point. Republicans in a Republican primary preferred Huckabee, but independents who could give two shits about the Republican party puts McCain over the top. Why is this allowed? [/QUOTE] Because Moderates (and I believe most people deep down really are this) would like to be able to choose from “moderate” candidates rather than from “standard bearers”. We don’t want to have to “hold our nose” and pick from the lesser of two extremes. No one party has a monopoly on truth and sensibility. As a New Yorker (and Independent) I feel disenfranchised because I have to sit back and choose from the two that hard-core party members choose. This is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/52 "2008-01-22T00:57:52Z")
[QUOTE=BwanaBob] Because Moderates (and I believe most people deep down really are this) would like to be able to choose from “moderate” candidates rather than from “standard bearers”. [/QUOTE] If most people were moderates who felt disenfranchised by the two major parties, there would be a third party kicking butt on the Dems and Pubs. There is not. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/53 "2008-01-22T03:05:13Z")
[QUOTE=BwanaBob] Because Moderates (and I believe most people deep down really are this) would like to be able to choose from “moderate” candidates rather than from “standard bearers”. We don’t want to have to “hold our nose” and pick from the lesser of two extremes. No one party has a monopoly on truth and sensibility. As a New Yorker (and Independent) I feel disenfranchised because I have to sit back and choose from the two that hard-core party members choose. This is bullshit. [/QUOTE] You have the Libertarians, the Greens, the Reform, the Consitutional Law, the Prohibition, the Socialist, the Communist, the Taxpayers Parties, etc. How are you disenfranchised? They have no chance of winning, you say? That doesn’t disenfranchise you; that just means that your guy lost. (Pretty badly) No, but you want to choose which Republican or which Democrat appears on the November ballot. If you want that, you need to join up. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/54 "2008-01-22T11:52:55Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] You have the Libertarians, the Greens, the Reform, the Consitutional Law, the Prohibition, the Socialist, the Communist, the Taxpayers Parties, etc. How are you disenfranchised? They have no chance of winning, you say? That doesn’t disenfranchise you; that just means that your guy lost. (Pretty badly) No, but you want to choose which Republican or which Democrat appears on the November ballot. If you want that, you need to join up. [/QUOTE] NO, you don’t, and you shouldn’t, and thankfully, states with open primaries make it that way. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/55 "2008-01-22T13:32:36Z")
[QUOTE=Frostillicus] I still think it is ridiculous. Registered Democrats should get to nominate the Democratic candidate, and the same holds true for the Republicans. Registered independants should have to wait until the general election to choose. [/QUOTE] I think Michigan is just unique. When I registered to vote here, I was not asked (and have not been asked) whether I am democrat or republican. - Honesty. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/56 "2008-01-22T15:04:29Z")
Sorry I couldn’t post back last night. Look, being realistic, there are good points to both major parties and some crappy ones too (IMHO). The correct blend of attributes for me doesn’t exist in any one party’s platform (3rd parties included). I would prefer that I had a choice of people closest to my perfect blend. I am denied this because I won’t buy into one party’s platform hook-line-and-sinker. If primaries were truly open in all states I wouldn’t be surprised if actual party enrollments dropped somewhat; reason being that some probably felt compelled to join one of the two just so they could have say in one of the candidates being nominated. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/57 "2008-01-22T15:15:13Z")
[QUOTE=BwanaBob] If primaries were truly open in all states I wouldn’t be surprised if actual party enrollments dropped somewhat; reason being that some probably felt compelled to join one of the two just so they could have say in one of the candidates being nominated. [/QUOTE] So why not dispense with primaries altogether, and just have a big ol’ general election with 15 or 20 candidates? That is whole purpose of primaries; to weed through all the pretenders and decide which will represent the party. If everybody gets to vote on all the candidates, why bother? ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669/58 "2008-01-22T20:34:46Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] So why not dispense with primaries altogether, and just have a big ol’ general election with 15 or 20 candidates? That is whole purpose of primaries; to weed through all the pretenders and decide which will represent the party. If everybody gets to vote on all the candidates, why bother? [/QUOTE] I agree with you - I’d rather it be this way, I’d have a much better chance of being able to pick from the less extreme candidates of either major party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-states-have-open-primaries/433669.md?page=2)