# Why do states with plastic bag bans also ban paper bags? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 4, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950 "2022-05-04T17:10:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/1 "2022-05-04T17:10:43Z")
I don’t know if this is due to the states or the retailers but I always assumed if there was a plastic bag ban we’d just revert to paper bags since they’re disposable. However living in California none of the retailers have paper bags as an option either, now you either pay 10 cents per bag or you bring your own bag and I feel most people just pay the rent cents. Why aren’t they giving out free paper bags? Seems way more eco-friendly than just charging us 10 cents per bag. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/2 "2022-05-04T17:15:57Z")
Making paper is not exactly environmentally friendly. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/3 "2022-05-04T17:17:38Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Why aren’t they giving out free paper bags? Seems way more eco-friendly than just charging us 10 cents per bag. Paper bags cost more than the plastic ones did. The reason that many stores switched to plastic was exactly due to that. So, they can charge you 10 cents, or give you something that costs them more for free. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/4 "2022-05-04T17:18:11Z")
Having to review the entire issue probably triggered some of the bean counters: « Hey, why are we giving away bags for free?!? » ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/5 "2022-05-04T17:24:09Z")
That’s not the case here in Ontario. Paper bags are still allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/6 "2022-05-04T17:32:43Z")
I think the 10 cent charge is to encourage you to find alternatives, such as reusable bags. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/7 "2022-05-04T17:40:35Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > That’s not the case here in Ontario. Paper bags are still allowed. The thread title says paper bags are banned, but the OP says they have to pay 10c for them. ---
**Author:** ![Didi44](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@Didi44](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Didi44)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/8 "2022-05-04T17:40:52Z")
In Hawaii, paper bags must be 100% recyclable with 40% recycled material and plastic bags must be \>10mil. both are more costly than the plastic bags they used to use. Some stores started charging for bags before the mandated $0.15 charge was started. _Acceptable Bags_ _1. “Recyclable Paper Bag” means a paper bag that: (1) is one hundred percent recyclable, (2) contains a minimum of forty percent post-consumer recycled content, and (3) displays the words “Reusable” and “Recyclable” in a highly visible manner on the outside of the bag._ _2. “Reusable Bag” means a bag with handles that is specifically designed and manufactured for multiple reuse and is made of:_ _(1) cloth or other washable fabric; or (2) durable material suitable for reuse, including plastic thicker than 10 mils._ [https://health.hawaii.gov/wic/files/2020/05/Mandatory-Plastic-Bag-Ban.pdf](https://health.hawaii.gov/wic/files/2020/05/Mandatory-Plastic-Bag-Ban.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Didi44](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@Didi44](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Didi44)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/9 "2022-05-04T17:48:31Z")
We’re also pending a ban on polystyrene and plastic containers and plastic utensils. Both are currently suspended because of the extra cost and difficulty getting into Hawaii because of Covid slowing down restaurant business and availability of product. [https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/03/honolulus-ban-on-plastic-and-polystyrene-containers-is-on-hold-for-6-months/](https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/03/honolulus-ban-on-plastic-and-polystyrene-containers-is-on-hold-for-6-months/) ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/10 "2022-05-04T17:50:30Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Making paper is not exactly environmentally friendly. Paper/wood is a renewable resource. There is no logical reason to ban its proper use. How would that be unfriendly towards the environment? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/11 "2022-05-04T17:51:51Z")
Paper makes up a rather large portion of what goes into landfills. I assume the OP is in NJ, as they had a new disposable ban go into effect today, which includes paper bags. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/12 "2022-05-04T17:52:12Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The thread title says paper bags are banned, but the OP says they have to pay 10c for them. I could have been more clear. In Ontario, single use plastic bags can’t be given out freely but they are not banned. The retailer must charge (I believe) $0.10 or more to discourage their use. This regulation does not apply to paper bags at all. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/13 "2022-05-04T18:02:12Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Paper/wood is a renewable resource. There is no logical reason to ban its proper use. How would that be unfriendly towards the environment? The trees have to be cut (gas chain saws), transported (diesel trucks) and pulped (chemicals and water use) Here’s a good summary I found: - 40% of the world’s commercially cut timber is used for the production of paper. - Pulpwood plantations and mills endanger natural habitats. - Over 30 million acres of forest are destroyed annually. - The pulp and paper industry is a big contributor to the problem of deforestation and is partly to blame for the endangerment of some species that live in the forests. - The life cycle of paper is damaging to the environment from beginning to end. It starts off with a tree being cut down and ends its life by being burned – emitting carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. - Paper production uses up lots of water. An A4 paper requires 10 liters of water per sheet. - Most of the materials in landfills are made of paper. When paper rots, it emits methane, a greenhouse gas. When it is burned or composted, carbon dioxide. - Pulp and paper mills discharge water that’s riddled with solids, dissolved organic matter called _lignin,_ alcohol, inorganic material such as _cholates_ , chlorineand metal compounds. All of this contributes to soil and water pollution. - The paper industry is the 5th largest consumer of energy in the world. It uses up 4% of the world’s energy. To produce 1 ton of virgin paper, it is estimated that 253 gallons of petrol is used. [https://www.theworldcounts.com/stories/Environmental\_Impact\_of\_Paper\_Production](https://www.theworldcounts.com/stories/Environmental_Impact_of_Paper_Production) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/14 "2022-05-04T18:10:21Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > How would that be unfriendly towards the environment? Read about clearcutting: > **[Clearcutting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearcutting)** > > Clearcutting, clearfelling or clearcut logging is a forestry/logging practice in which most or all trees in an area are uniformly cut down. Along with shelterwood and seed tree harvests, it is used by foresters to create certain types of forest ecosystems and to promote select species that require an abundance of sunlight or grow in large, even-age stands. Logging companies and forest-worker unions in some countries support the practice for scientific, safety and economic reasons, while de Clear... ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/15 "2022-05-04T18:12:24Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Here’s a good summary I found: I don’t have anything to add to that list but it should generally be noted that “recyclable” is not synonymous with “sustainable” or “pollution-free”. Many types of plastic are recyclable in theory but in practice only a couple of percent of total plastic packaging and containers actually make it into a recycling system while the manufacture of plastic inevitably produces pollution and toxic byproducts that are persistent in the environment. In fact, the only materials that are actually consistently recycled are those that are fiscally viable to do so, i.e. aluminum, steel, copper, and other metals. Even glass recycling—which takes an enormous amount of energy to sort, grind, and reform into new glass containers—has to be subsidized to make it worthwhile even though stocks of sand suitable for glassmaking are becoming an increasingly scarce resource. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/16 "2022-05-04T18:12:37Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Paper/wood is a renewable resource. There is no logical reason to ban its proper use. How would that be unfriendly towards the environment? “Renewable” is a word that doesn’t always mean what you think it should. All single-use paper is environmentally harmful – vast forests are clear-cut, destroying all continuity of the ecosystem and destroying habitat for everything that lived there, just so people can have paper towels and bags they throw away. The processing, packaging, shipping, and then dealing with the garbage, all has a huge impact. The ugly truth is that nothing and I mean nothing whatsoever, that human beings do is beneficial to the planet (except our puny efforts at repair), and everything we do is damaging – now that there are so many billions of us. The question is not, what is benign, but what is less harmful than the alternatives. Paper is better than plastic, cotton canvas bags are far better than either. I have cloth shopping bags I bought in the 1980’s that have been in continuous use, mended, re-mended, and still perfectly useful. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/17 "2022-05-04T18:15:30Z")
I know that when Washington DC imposed the tax on plastic bags, grocery stores asked the city to include paper bags because they cost the stores twice as much as plastic. I heard this on the Kojo Nnamdi show when the tax was introduced. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/18 "2022-05-04T18:32:55Z")
But clear cutting isn’t done in order to produce paper, it is done to harvest wood for the lumber that people need to build houses and other things. The wood left over from this harvest and the trimmings from the sawmills, are chipped up and hauled away to paper mills and turned into paper, reclaiming a waste product that otherwise would be burned or left to rot on the ground, both which would be much worse for the environment releasing the carbon stored in the wood. And for those who dislike the practice of clearcutting, most forest land is now essentially tree farming. Plots are cut, replanted and left to grow, while other areas are coming mature and will be harvested, the cycle repeats. Essentially crop rotation on a larger scale. But that is what it is, farming trees. The whole plastic bag thing never made sense to me. Now instead of 3 or 4 thin, flimsy, plastic bags from Safeway, I pay 10 cents for a much thicker, technically reusable, bag that probably uses more plastic than the thin ones I would have used, and it has the same future, it will end up in the landfill or be burned in the trash. Good intended idea that does not solve the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/19 "2022-05-04T18:40:19Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > The whole plastic bag thing never made sense to me. Now instead of 3 or 4 thin, flimsy, plastic bags from Safeway, I pay 10 cents for a much thicker, technically reusable, bag that probably uses more plastic than the thin ones I would have used In Denver, we pay 10¢ for the same ol’ crappy gonna-tear bags. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950/20 "2022-05-04T18:46:59Z")
In Delaware the thin plastic bags are no more. We have a pile of the thick plastic bags that we reuse. Home Depot is using brown paper bags like the old grocery bags of my youth (except with a big orange logo on the side). Most of the time I just skip bagging unless I buy too much to easily carry. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-states-with-plastic-bag-bans-also-ban-paper-bags/963950.md?page=2)