# Why do successful women beat each down this way? Re Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer's Vogue photo shoot **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 25, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162 "2013-08-25T23:29:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/21 "2013-08-26T04:22:40Z")
> [@InternetLegend](#): > > While that’s certainly true in many instances, I don’t believe that any woman who’s made it to the top of an organization got there by being attractive. Yes, attractive people do get breaks that the less-attractive miss out on, but if you look at the top levels of business and government, physical beauty doesn’t seem to be a pre-requisite for success. You don’t get to be a CEO because you’re pretty. > > The issue here, for me, isn’t that I think a woman became successful because of her looks; the sticking point for me is that I think this woman is trivializing herself and, by extension, other successful women, by allowing herself to be portrayed primarily as an ornamental object. Right. Primarily as an ornamental object. So nowhere in the vogue article does it mention that she is the a CEO of a company that was trending downward prior to her leadership. I get your point:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/22 "2013-08-26T05:32:18Z")
> [@InternetLegend](#): > > Who was the last male executive to be featured in a GQ spread that focused on how sexy he was? Richard Branson would be my guess. But certainly, it’s more common for male executives to have their looks cited derogatorily. Think of how often we were told what a nerd Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg (or Sean Parker or Paul Allen, etc.) appears to be. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/23 "2013-08-26T05:57:27Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Richard Branson would be my guess. > > But certainly, it’s more common for male executives to have their looks cited derogatorily. Think of how often we were told what a nerd Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg (or Sean Parker or Paul Allen, etc.) appears to be. I hate the fact that Branson probably fits; the silly photos of him with some half-naked woman on his back - pathetic. But he’s clearly been successful. But he markets himself as a brand that transcends his separate businesses; is Mayer seeking to do that? ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/24 "2013-08-26T12:35:12Z")
All women are catty with other women. They view them as competition ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/25 "2013-08-26T12:44:08Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > All women are catty with other women. They view them as competition We are? We do? Now you tell me. I should probably get working on that: I never knew I was doing “being a woman” wrong, til you explained it so clearly. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/26 "2013-08-26T12:45:20Z")
> [@nicole1912](#): > > We are? We do? Now you tell me. I should probably get working on that: I never knew I was doing “being a woman” wrong, til you explained it so clearly. Thank you! Don’t feed it. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/27 "2013-08-26T13:00:11Z")
Putin is always flexing and oil wrestling or what not. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/28 "2013-08-26T14:04:48Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > All women are catty with other women. They view them as competition Dial back making comments like this, it can be seen as trolling. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/29 "2013-08-26T14:10:35Z")
Cheesecake or glamour shots and superficial reportage are expected in Vogue. Her Forbes profile seems non-exploitative. Readers hould consider the source before raining down righteous indignation. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/30 "2013-08-26T14:15:24Z")
Moved MPSIMS to IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/31 "2013-08-26T14:18:16Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > But he markets himself as a brand that transcends his separate businesses; is Mayer seeking to do that? I’m not sure that Yahoo _has_ a brand separate from Marissa Mayer these days. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/32 "2013-08-26T14:20:35Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Cheesecake or glamour shots and superficial reportage are expected in Vogue. Her Forbes profile seems non-exploitative. Readers hould consider the source before raining down righteous indignation. I agree with this and the other posts that see no contradiction between having glamour and a successful business career. Both men and women can have both, or neither, despite the fact that they do have an influence on each other. (Good looks in both genders influences career success to a degree, and if you’re powerful you’re either bumped up automatically in your attractiveness quotient and/or you can afford the costs to maximize your looks.) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/33 "2013-08-26T14:27:11Z")
Marissa Mayer is choosing to brand herself. I don’t know if she is making wise choices, but they are her choices. (And frankly, its a fun choice - I mean, maybe isn’t a fantasy of every woman to have a glamorous photo shoot done where you look incredible, but I’m not sure I’d turn that opportunity down if Vogue approached me). She is a smart woman, she can choose to be in Vogue or not, she is well aware it is a fashion magazine, and she can have a say in how Vogue presents her. I think she’s taking a risk - she knows she is CEO of a dead end brand in a male dominated industry. Her challenge is to play like the boys (see where that got Carly Fiorina) or become something different. Its an interesting idea. She isn’t winning feminist friends with it - her policies on working from home were seen as anti family and now this - but when she leaves Yahoo, she will have a brand. Now, whether that brand puts her in a better position for her next job, or whether it leaves people saying “yeah, first she pissed off Yahoo employees, then she spent time building her brand by doing cheesecake Vogue photoshoots and interviews rather than putting the work into saving Yahoo” I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/34 "2013-08-26T15:10:11Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Marissa Mayer is choosing to brand herself. I don’t know if she is making wise choices, but they are her choices. (And frankly, its a fun choice - I mean, maybe isn’t a fantasy of every woman to have a glamorous photo shoot done where you look incredible, but I’m not sure I’d turn that opportunity down if Vogue approached me). She is a smart woman, she can choose to be in Vogue or not, she is well aware it is a fashion magazine, and she can have a say in how Vogue presents her. > > I think she’s taking a risk - she knows she is CEO of a dead end brand in a male dominated industry. Her challenge is to play like the boys (see where that got Carly Fiorina) or become something different. Its an interesting idea. She isn’t winning feminist friends with it - her policies on working from home were seen as anti family and now this - but when she leaves Yahoo, she will have a brand. Now, whether that brand puts her in a better position for her next job, or whether it leaves people saying “yeah, first she pissed off Yahoo employees, then she spent time building her brand by doing cheesecake Vogue photoshoots and interviews rather than putting the work into saving Yahoo” I don’t know. Really well stated; exactly my thoughts. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/35 "2013-08-26T15:35:46Z")
By the way, people, including other women should respect her choices, but respect doesn’t mean that you can’t question them or not agree with them. I think Richard Branson is a goof - but he looks like he’s having fun and is probably fun to be around. I think Larry Ellison is a jerk and I wouldn’t want to work for him, work with him, or frankly be in the same room with him, and I think Marissa Mayer comes off as narcissistic. I think that Melinda saved Bill Gates - the marriage made the man. I don’t know any of these people, but this is the impression they leave me with based on the public persona they have shown the world. I don’t think Mayer’s cheesecake photos are going to set feminism back - I really hope we are past that - in part because we’ve had women like Meg Whitman and Indra Nooyi be successful and serious in a similar job - so now we can have a woman whose a little more “Branson like” in her public image. If my competition for “female technology CEOs” was Sheryl Sandberg and Kim Polese, I’m not sure if I’d be caught on a lawnchair in a Vogue photo shoot. But as a feminist and a business woman, I feel like there are other women, I don’t need Mayer to be the flag bearer. If she is hurting anyone, its herself, which is her choice, not womankind in general. And I’m not sure that she has a responsibility to womankind in general. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/36 "2013-08-26T15:47:39Z")
> [@InternetLegend](#): > > Who was the last male executive to be featured in a GQ spread that focused on how sexy he was? > [@InternetLegend](#): > > The issue here, for me, isn’t that I think a woman became successful because of her looks; the sticking point for me is that I think this woman is trivializing herself and, by extension, other successful women, by allowing herself to be portrayed primarily as an ornamental object. Yep. I was trying to find equivalent articles for her male peers (people like Ballmer, Zuckerberg, Gates, Allen, Bezos, Page, etc.) to see if in their interviews in mags like GQ and Esquire (Vogue-like fashion mags) they were similarly draped across things. I can’t find them online - internet business_men_ don’t seem to pose in fashion magazines. News magazines, business magazines, industry magazines, they’re all over the place. “What to wear now!” not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/37 "2013-08-26T23:18:53Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t know how old this person is, but her looks won’t last forever. Waddya mean? Ever seen a recent photo of Sophia Loren? Maybe not forever, but pretty close. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162/38 "2013-08-27T19:21:40Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > I give you [Sexy Bill Gates](http://www.corbisimages.com/stock-photo/rights-managed/AAHW001037/bill-gates-tossing-floppy-disk). In Silicon Valley (and Redmond, WA) it does seem that male top-level execs often have a “nerdy” aspect similar to Gates. But elsewhere in the corporate world, male executives often seem to be of a physical type as well–trim, tall, and with minimal hair loss if any. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-successful-women-beat-each-down-this-way-re-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayers-vogue-photo-shoot/667162.md?page=1)