# Why do the characters in very old animated cartoons CONSTANTLY bob up & down? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2002, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121 "2002-12-16T18:03:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gsteinma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/77aa72/32.png) [@gsteinma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gsteinma)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/1 "2002-12-16T18:03:08Z")
I was watching some very old Betty Boop cartoons over the weekend - man, they are so hard to watch! I get seasick watching these old cartoons because the characters bob up and down continuously! This is especially true of Fleischer studio cartoons (such as Betty Boop and Popeye) from the 1930s. Why did they do it? Was it a way of marking time to synchronize the sound, or did they do it because they thought if the characters stood still people would think they weren’t getting their money’s worth? Or did the animators have Palsey? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/2 "2002-12-16T18:09:17Z")
I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Often when there was music going on the characters would bob or move in time tio the music as a sort of dance. But it wasn’t invariably there. Popeye didn’t generally bounce around, nor did Koko the Clown in the very oldest cartoons. They certainly didn’t have to bounce up and down to synchronize the sound – the sound is recorded \*first[p/i], and then the animation is done to meet the soundtrack. In fact, the Fleischers invented an animated “metronome” to guide the orchestra in recording cartoon music. See Leslie Cabarga’s wonderful book **The Fleischer Story**. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/3 "2002-12-16T18:10:46Z")
If I remember correctly, it’s something along the lines of your second hypothesis - the continuous motion made the cartoons seem more lifelike. Unfortunately I don’t have any cites to back it up. Or maybe the Fleischers just dug it. ---
**Author:** ![gsteinma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/77aa72/32.png) [@gsteinma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gsteinma)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/4 "2002-12-16T18:16:31Z")
No, it is constantly there. Take an old Popyeye cartoon - no music at the time, Popeye is just standing to one side - yet his knees are constantly flexing as he bobs up and down. Or this Betty Boop cartoon “Poor Cinderella” - the Fairy Godmother is talking to her, and she is also flexing her knees and bobbing up and down but NOT in time to the music OR the Fairy Godmothers poem - she’s just doing it to do it! In the same cartoon at the beginning there is a “proclamation” banner held up for 10 seconds and all 8 tassles on it are bobbing up and down - NOT swaying in the breeze, just bobbing up and down! Again NOT in time to the music. ---
**Author:** ![dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorkusmalorkusmafia/32/7266_2.png) [@dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorkusmalorkusmafia)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/5 "2002-12-16T18:20:34Z")
I remember seeing that with Popeye as well. Most of the time the “dancing look” went in time with the music in the background, even with Popeye. At least that is my personal observation. I am not as familiar with Betty Boop, but I have a hankering that it is based on a similar premise. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/6 "2002-12-16T18:35:45Z")
I’ll have to look at my old cartoons again, because I don’t recall them bouncing “out-of-time” or without music. Cabarga certainly doesn’t mention it. If they did do so, it was probably to remind the audience it was an _animated_ cartoon, and to take advantafge of the medium. Windsor McKay certainly had his character Gertie the Dinosaur bouncing around when she wasn’t doing anything else in his classic cartoon of the same name. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/7 "2002-12-16T18:39:50Z")
It was _also_ an easily repeatable action that could re-use drawings of moving knees/legs. Saves animation costs. Walt Disney used it in _Steamboat Willie_ and other early Disney toons. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/8 "2002-12-16T19:40:27Z")
Bosda has it. It was a way of re-using the same drawings over and over, and hitting the audience over the head with the fact that they were watching drawings that–get this–MOVED! ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/9 "2002-12-16T19:48:06Z")
That’s funny, I’m never bothered by bobbing in old Fleischer cartoons, but the stuff Walt Disney did, like Steamboat Willy, bugs the crap out of me in that regard. They even did a parody of his jerky style on The Simpsons (Steamboat Scratchy). Disney really was a pretty dismal animator, but he at least had the sense later on to relegate the actual drawing to others who could do it well. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/10 "2002-12-16T19:49:18Z")
Bosco and Honey cartoons do this all the time. It is part of the reason the Bosco cartoons suck, they spend so much time doing lame things showing off that it is an animated show that they don’t do any gags. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/11 "2002-12-16T22:53:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Steamboat Scratchy [nitpick]I believe it was Steamboat Itchy.[/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/12 "2002-12-16T23:04:26Z")
> [@](#): > > **CalMeacham** : They certainly didn’t have to bounce up and down to synchronize the sound – the sound is recorded _first_, and then the animation is done to meet the soundtrack. > [@](#): > > **blowero** : I’m never bothered by bobbing in old Fleischer cartoons, but the stuff Walt Disney did, like Steamboat Willy, bugs the crap out of me in that regard. This is unsurprising. The Fleischer Bros. were brilliant animators and approached the medium the right way. Walt Disney, on the other hand, was fumbling around in the dark. In the beginning, he did do the animation first and then work on a sound-track to suit it. This ass-backwards approach became known in the industry as “Mickey Mousing”, (particularly w/ regard to adding _music_ to match actions,) the meaning of which has been broadened to refer to any thing that’s done in an inferior way. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/13 "2002-12-17T01:14:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > it was probably to remind the audience it was an _animated_ cartoon, and to take advantage of the medium. Like all the ridiculously unnecessary balance shifting in early stereo recordings? ```auto Hey! Man! Dig this! ``` ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/14 "2002-12-17T01:56:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KneadToKnow \* > **Like all the ridiculously unnecessary balance shifting in early stereo recordings?** Or pretty much any scene in a 3D movie. My god…that pie is coming right at us! ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/15 "2002-12-17T02:12:53Z")
I love that about old cartoons. So much motion, wheeeee! ---
**Author:** ![typhoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed8c4c/32.png) [@typhoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typhoon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/16 "2002-12-17T02:34:17Z")
Kind of like how the not-so-well-done computer-generated characters of the modern day have a bunch of superfluous movement. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/17 "2002-12-17T19:50:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Larry Mudd \* > The Fleischer Bros. were brilliant animators and approached the medium the right way. I agree. And as a sidetrack, while we’re sucking up to the Fleischers, how did they do that 3-D looking background effect you see in Betty Boop cartoons? That was amazing, and years ahead of their time. > [@](#): > > Walt Disney, on the other hand, was fumbling around in the dark. In the beginning, he did do the animation first and then work on a sound-track to suit it. This ass-backwards approach became known in the industry as “Mickey Mousing”, (particularly w/ regard to adding _music_ to match actions,) the meaning of which has been broadened to refer to any thing that’s done in an inferior way. Hilarious. I always wondered where that expression came from. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/18 "2002-12-17T19:56:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by shy guy \* > \*\*[nitpick]I believe it was Steamboat Itchy.[/nitpick] \*\* Why do I hear the Comic Book Guy voice when I read that?😉 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/19 "2002-12-17T20:10:40Z")
> [@](#): > > I agree. And as a sidetrack, while we’re sucking up to the Fleischers, how did they do that 3-D looking background effect you see in Betty Boop cartoons? That was amazing, and years ahead of their time. It was a patented process of theirs (they patented the Rotoscope, too), in which a model was built on a large rotating turntable with a fixed camera, and I think there was a special frame to hold the animation cels – think of the Disney Multiplane camera turned horizontal, only with a rotating bed instead of a flat one. There are pictures and descriptions in Leslie Cabarga’s book, and I’ll bet there are plenty on the Internet, too. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121/20 "2002-12-17T20:20:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*Disney really was a pretty dismal animator, but he at least had the sense later on to relegate the actual drawing to others who could do it well. \*\* Disney himself never did the animation for his cartoons after he left Kansas City for Hollywood. He had animator [Ub Iwerks](http://www.digitalmediafx.com/Features/ubiwerks.html) working for him from 1924 to 1930, and it’s Iweks’ style that you see in _Steamboat Willie_ (1928). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-characters-in-very-old-animated-cartoons-constantly-bob-up-down/143121.md?page=2)