# Why do the Democrats have so many rich leaders? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386 "2014-09-23T23:44:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/61 "2014-09-24T13:47:52Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I cited the CBO report only to show that there is evidence that higher minimum wage will cost jobs. It has other effects as well, but I wasn’t discussing those. Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. You’re cherry-picking. And based on my reading of the CBO report, it seems like the major loss of income under a minimum wage hike would be in families that make more than six times the poverty threshold (i.e., greater than $120,000 for a family of three). I discovered this after looking for the report and taking about 7 minutes to skim it. It turns out that the report is substantially different than you characterized it. If you do not accurately represent the data in the report for those who didn’t want to take a few moments to read it, do you understand why the whole credibility of the points you have made in this thread – whether it is that a minimum wage hike is a bad thing, the “just asking questions” about wealthy liberals, or that Democrats don’t care about the poor – is instantly suspect? So far, your arguments presented in this thread seem predicated on the idea that we’re simply willing to swallow your version of the facts with no further examination or investigation on our part. The points you’ve made seem better targeted to naive children who will simply believe what you say, rather than putting together a coherent, fact-based argument that stands up under even a minimal level of scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/62 "2014-09-24T15:32:39Z")
Because Democratic policies make people rich and moral ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/63 "2014-09-24T15:57:43Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Given all that, it sure seems a little bit strange to see the party leadership consisting of so many zillionaires and so few of the poor and middle class. Wow, you’re right. My life has been a lie. Next election I’ll vote for the poor or middle class candidate. **ITR** , who will that be? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/64 "2014-09-24T16:00:37Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I care deeply about the poor… This statement cannot be fully evaluated until you tell us how much you are worth. If it is too much, by your own logic, you actually do not care about the poor, no matter what you say. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/65 "2014-09-24T16:03:04Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Read all about it here: > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-controversy-over-elizabeth-warrens-claimed-native-american-heritage/2012/09/27/d0b7f568-08a5-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258\_blog.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-controversy-over-elizabeth-warrens-claimed-native-american-heritage/2012/09/27/d0b7f568-08a5-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_blog.html) Disappointed that this site doesn’t support in-post images, so you can show us your two Pinocchios? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/66 "2014-09-24T19:10:23Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Well, I get my information from sources such as academic papers and journals, books by credentialed experts, and reputable mainstream publications. I don’t based my beliefs on what Bill Maher says; that may explain why you and I disagree on so many things. I don’t get my information from Bill Maher. Bill can really turn a phrase, and I quoted him because he got this particular point across really well with his matchless acerbic wit. Perhaps it would be more productive if you tried to address what he was actually saying instead of who he is, namely that the present political climate has moved so far to the right that Democrats have become the party of the rich and big business, while Republicans have drifted off the chart into loony-land and become a party of exploiters, radical social conservatives, and religious nutbars. If this is not so, how do explain Rick Santorum, Ted Cruz, Mitt Romney’s suddenly contrived right-wing radicalism, the solidarity of Republican global-warning deniers, or the complete insanity of the Romney-Ryan budget platform that I already talked about? You say you get your information from all sorts of credentialed experts, but in that very same post, in support of your argument about government spending you provided a link to someone’s right-wing blog; in support of your argument about tax burdens you provided a link to a litany of complaints by the Heritage Foundation (whose contempt for factual accuracy I’m intimately familiar with mostly from dealing with their gross misrepresentations of climate science); in support of your argument about government regulation you provided a link to a litany of complaints by the National Association of Manufacturers (whose goals I think are fairly transparent). If these are typical of where you get your information and represent your ideas of impartial academic journals and credentialed experts, then it sheds considerable light on why we disagree on so many things. > [@septimus](#): > > I think most of us, from either side of the river, will agree that government caters too much to the rich. But I don’t see electing lower- or middle-income politicians as key to the solution; people without wealth may often be more easily corrupted than the rich. Speaking for myself, I don’t think I’ve ever said such a thing or ever believed it, and that’s really not the point at all of the vehement objections that reasonable people have against the half-dozen Supreme Court rulings promoting money in politics over the last seven years or so, of which Citizens United is just one instance. It’s not so much the wealth, or lack thereof, of any particular politician that is problematic, it’s the fact that the systemic influence of money is so profoundly entrenched in the political system that politicians invariably _ **become aligned with** _, and beholden to, moneyed interests. And the fewer limits there are to political contributions and political spending, the more moneyed interests exclusively dominate the political dialog and the entire political process. That’s what the real problem is. The fact that some inheritors of multi-generational wealth like George W. Bush or Mitt Romney are so out of touch with the real world that they don’t even comprehend what it’s like to have financial problems, let alone to be really poor, just compounds the problem. But it’s really an incidental issue, and the disconnectedness of some of these people, like the examples named, is due less to the fact that they have never really had to really work for a living than to the fact that they are self-absorbed dumbasses devoid of empathy. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/67 "2014-09-24T19:16:38Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Sure. The Democrats are the party of big business. The Republicans though are the party of the Chamber of Commerce. No, not the **whole** GOP. [The **Tea Party** is the party of the Chamber of Commerce](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=704287&highlight=lind) (local, not U.S.), that is, the party of “local notables” (millionaires as opposed to billionaires, local business interests as opposed to national/multinational corporations; and also as opposed to any populist grassroots whether local or national). The mainstream GOP establishment is all for Big Biz/Wall Street. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/68 "2014-09-24T19:27:57Z")
What I want to know is why is this thread in GD and not the pit where it belongs. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/69 "2014-09-24T20:32:05Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > That’s an absolutely extraordinary point of view, and as **Ulfreida** and **JesterX** have already pointed out, it’s exactly backwards. Less government is exactly what the 1% want because government is the only entity that can stand up for the collective 99%, and without it the 1% dominate everything without limit. They’re doing it already – and that’s the whole point of why they spend billions to get their guys into government to basically do things like lower their taxes, scale back environmental regulation on industry, deregulate broadcasting and media ownership rules and scuttle the fairness in broadcasting laws, deregulate commerce in general, appoint right-wing nutcases to the Supreme Court to allow them to spend as much as they need to in order to buy the hearts and minds of the unwashed masses, and basically render government inoperative. Except for a few things that they like, like an immense free-spending military, and draconian laws that let entertainment conglomerates sue grandmothers and small children for downloading a song while the corresponding injustices and personal privacy invasions are completely ignored. > > The actual solution to restoring some semblance of balance and sanity and concern for the actual citizenry instead of the plutocracy is to take money out of politics by imposing stringent uniform spending limits on all candidates equally, and providing public funds to all qualified candidates who have a realistic minimum level of support. Then – and only then – will you have some chance of maybe getting candidates elected on merit instead of being vetted, anointed, and installed by the wealthy plutocracy. > > I’ll quote Bill Maher again, because he sums it up so well, and he’s not exactly kind to Democrats, either: wolfpup, I may have missed your welcome thread. So, welcome, here and now. As it turns out, 2014 was a great year for SDMB, and people who agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/70 "2014-09-24T21:30:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because America’s pretty much a plutocracy. > > They do, at least more than the Republicans do. The Republicans are outright hostile to the poor and middle class, especially the poor. They regard the poor as parasites and vermin. Der Trihs, I’m surprising myself - and likely others - when I say I’m only mod noting you on this. I’m only giving you a note, instead of the warning it could have been, because I really want to try to get through to you. You’ve been noted and warned for this sort of thing for quite a while and it doesn’t seem to be getting through. The sort of over-the-top rhetoric of which you are so fond is offensive in the extreme. Stating what you did in the above quote is, to me, exactly the same as any broad brush. “All Republcians are X” is equivalent to “All blacks are X” or “All jews are X” or “All women are X”. Guidance has been provided to you on this matter in the past and, while I had hope you were adjusting your posting style to be less hate-filled, this appears to be another example in a long chain of such. It is so simple to rephrase such so that it is not insulting nor all-inclusive that to have to point it out defies my belief. It is certainly possible to express strong opinions without having to use the written equivalent of a baseball bat as you seem to enjoy doing. Further examples. ANY further examples in any thread in Great Debates will go poorly for you. I truly hope that’s not the case and that, at last, you’ll rethink your posting style. Not your beliefs, mind you, simply the way in which you express them. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/71 "2014-09-24T22:03:32Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > This is an unconvincing explanation. John Kerry, for instance, is enormously wealthy mainly because he married a woman whose family sold huge amounts of ketchup. It’s hard to tie that to his belief in equality. _snicker_ John Kerry is wealthy because he married Teresa Heinz, who was wealth because her late husband, John Heinz, was in the ketchup business. And John Heinz was the **Republican** senator from Pennsylvania. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/72 "2014-09-24T22:14:01Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Der Trihs, I’m surprising myself - and likely others - when I say I’m only mod noting you on this. > > I’m only giving you a note, instead of the warning it could have been, because I really want to try to get through to you. You’ve been noted and warned for this sort of thing for quite a while and it doesn’t seem to be getting through. The sort of over-the-top rhetoric of which you are so fond is offensive in the extreme. > > Stating what you did in the above quote is, to me, exactly the same as any broad brush. “All Republcians are X” is equivalent to “All blacks are X” or “All jews are X” or “All women are X”. Guidance has been provided to you on this matter in the past and, while I had hope you were adjusting your posting style to be less hate-filled, this appears to be another example in a long chain of such. > > It is so simple to rephrase such so that it is not insulting nor all-inclusive that to have to point it out defies my belief. It is certainly possible to express strong opinions without having to use the written equivalent of a baseball bat as you seem to enjoy doing. > > Further examples. ANY further examples in any thread in Great Debates will go poorly for you. I truly hope that’s not the case and that, at last, you’ll rethink your posting style. Not your beliefs, mind you, simply the way in which you express them. Fair enough. I definitely do not want to get into defending **Der Trihs** mostly because he can take care of himself. But the OP in this case was a ridiculous, hyper-partisan, complex question fallacy with a bunch of political sniping thrown in for good measure. The only way I wanted to respond to ITR champion was with snark also; it was all the original post really deserved IMHO. I was also tempted to start a thread asking why so many Republicans commit the mortal sin of adultery. I mean they are all about family values, personal responsibility, religious faith and loyalty to values, but there are so many examples of them cheating that it must mean they don’t really believe in it right? Then I realized that if I started a thread like this I would be trolling. Wouldn’t I? Isn’t this what this thread is about is trying to get a rise out of people? If **ITR champion** really thought Democrats were being hypocritical for not giving away their money, or maybe lying about caring about income inequality, or maybe that they don’t deserve to be party members because they have too much money, then he could of actually actually created a debate to talk about the evidence for each point. Instead he come in with this fallacious question that is either [begging the question](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question) or posing a [complex question](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_question) that can’t really be debated. Why is this GD anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/73 "2014-09-24T22:50:57Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Stating what you did in the above quote is, to me, exactly the same as any broad brush. “All Republcians are X” is equivalent to “All blacks are X” or “All jews are X” or “All women are X”. Hardly. People are not born Republican. The whole point of a political party is that they are at least provisionally willing to go along with being “all X”. And demanding that people not use “broad brush” arguments is in almost all conversations nothing more than a means of silencing criticism of the American Right. People and do use “broad brush” arguments about \*every other group, \*because that’s the _only_ practical way to speak about a large group of people; it’s only with the Right that _suddenly_ we are supposed to address every single individual person one by one, all millions of them. Something that is impossible - which is the point. > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > It is so simple to rephrase such so that it is not insulting nor all-inclusive that to have to point it out defies my belief. Certainly it would be simple, if I was willing to lie. I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/74 "2014-09-24T22:57:15Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > But the OP in this case was a ridiculous, hyper-partisan, complex question fallacy with a bunch of political sniping thrown in for good measure. There is a lot of that going around, (from both sides of the political divide). > [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Why is this GD anyway? Because the original question, odd as it was, has led to a serious discussion regarding economics and where one finds and interprets facts regarding economics. There was no mouth-foaming in the OP and most of the responses have been similarly civil. You are free to open a rant in The BBQ Pit, but do not try to convert this thread to one. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/75 "2014-09-24T23:12:24Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > There is a lot of that going around, (from both sides of the political divide). > Because the original question, odd as it was, has led to a serious discussion regarding economics and where one finds and interprets facts regarding economics. > > There was no mouth-foaming in the OP and most of the responses have been similarly civil. > > You are free to open a rant in The BBQ Pit, but do not try to convert this thread to one. > > [/Moderating] I withdraw my complaint; While I agree the discussion has been civil, I still think the debate is unproductive and illuminates nothing. Apologies ITR, I do/did not want to hijack your thread… ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/76 "2014-09-24T23:59:22Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Hardly. People are not born Republican. The whole point of a political party is that they are at least provisionally willing to go along with being “all X”. > > And demanding that people not use “broad brush” arguments is in almost all conversations nothing more than a means of silencing criticism of the American Right. People and do use “broad brush” arguments about \*every other group, \*because that’s the _only_ practical way to speak about a large group of people; it’s only with the Right that _suddenly_ we are supposed to address every single individual person one by one, all millions of them. Something that is impossible - which is the point. > > Certainly it would be simple, if I was willing to lie. I’m not. Insistence on civility does not require lying. Nonetheless, we’ve been over this ground multiple times. You are aware of the limits and should abide by them. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/77 "2014-09-25T00:52:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The Republicans are outright hostile to the poor and middle class, especially the poor. They regard the poor as parasites and vermin. Not true. We want to help the poor. Truely. We’d like to be able to offer them jobs and to have them all be employed and such. We just don’t like how the government takes fistfulls of tax money and throws it blindly in the general direction of the nearest “poor” person. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/78 "2014-09-25T01:43:33Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > We just don’t like how the government takes fistfulls of tax money and throws it blindly in the general direction of the nearest “poor” person. How does this prevent you from offering jobs to the unemployed poor? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/79 "2014-09-25T02:15:07Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Next election I’ll vote for the poor or middle class candidate. > > **ITR** , who will that be? [Rand Paul looks like the best bet.](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/darrell-issa-richest-congressman-355-million-article-1.1431618) ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386/80 "2014-09-25T02:17:14Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > This statement cannot be fully evaluated until you tell us how much you are worth. If it is too much, by your own logic, you actually do not care about the poor, no matter what you say. I don’t recall using any such logic. Nevertheless, I’ll give my best estimate of my net worth: about $20,000. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-have-so-many-rich-leaders/699386.md?page=5)