# Why do the Democrats rely on seniority for Senate committee chairmanships?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [December 18, 2007, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458 "2007-12-18T15:32:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/1 "2007-12-18T15:32:01Z")
[News today in the Politico](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7446.html) is that some Democrats are considering ousting Byrd as Appropriations Committee Chairman because he is too old for the job. His mobility and hearing problems make it very hard for him to conduct committee work, and this has caused significant problems this year.
Leaving aside this immediate news (Byrd has few fans here) the question for me is - why is he there? What is so sacred in seniority that it was automatically his turn?
Republicans in the Senate ditched this rule a decade ago, and in the House both parties use seniority as a factor only. If there is something that would prevent a senior member from assuming a chairmanship, he won’t (in theory) get it.
Byrd should leave the chair to a more able senator, and the rules for the Democrats should be changed to bring them into line with their colleagues in the House and on the other side of the aisle.
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### Author:  [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/2 "2007-12-18T15:46:05Z")
> **[NORRIS ATTACKS SENIORITY IN SENATE; Resolution Affecting Committees May Split...](https://www.nytimes.com/1918/11/16/archives/norris-attacks-seniority-in-senate-resolution-affecting-committees.html)**
>
> introduces resolution attacking seniority principle in making assignments to Sen committees
Why do the Republicans.? That is what we have done forever.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/3 "2007-12-18T15:54:31Z")
From the linked Politico story:
> [@](#):
>
> Democrats have remained guided by the seniority system in awarding committee gavels, while GOP leaders are no longer bound by that requirement.
>
> At the end of 1998, the late Sen. Strom Thurmond (R-S.C.) was ousted as chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee in favor of Sen. John Warner (R-Va.).
So it isn’t what _we_ have done forever. The Republicans in the Senate got rid of this stupid rule close to a decade ago, per my original post.
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### Author:  [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/4 "2007-12-18T20:43:55Z")
Are you suggesting seniority does not govern repug choices.
2005
Sen Intelligence- Pat Roberts
Commerce/science Ted Stevens
Health /welfare sen Enzi
finance/Grassley
wats and means…Bill Thomas
Env ub works…Inhofe
Banking…Sarbanes
Judicial …SPECTOR
Yep I see the difference.
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### Author:  [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/5 "2007-12-18T20:48:57Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Why do the Democrats rely on seniority for Senate committee chairmanships?
You are admittedly not a democrat so why do you care?
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### Author:  [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/6 "2007-12-18T21:03:27Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic]
You are admittedly not a democrat so why do you care?
[/QUOTE]
Not to answer for the OP, but the Democrats are part of the body which governs the USA, which I live in. What more reason do I need?
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### Author:  [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/7 "2007-12-18T21:10:31Z")
It’s always good to see **gonzo** chiming in with his pointless links and his unique usage of the English language. For one, **gonzo** , there is no “Wats and Means” committee in the Senate. I think you mean the “Ways and Means” Committee, and that’s in the House. And Sarbanes at Banking is a Democrat. But don’t let facts stand in the way of your rant.
As far as seniority goes, yes, the GOP in general allows the highest ranking GOP member of a Committee to decide if he will take the chairmanship. But, as the Thurmond example shows, this is not always the case.
The seniority rule makes some sense. If you’ve been on the committee for decades, in theory you’ll have some expertise with the subjects under the committee’s baliwick. But with aged Senators like Byrd (who I believe is running for re-election next year, amazingly enough) and Thurmond, there is a question about how well these folks can truly do their job. Thurmond got by in his last years due mainly to staff support. If Byrd is re-elected, I’d venture that he will soon be mainly a mouthpiece for staff. A Senator can get by in this way, but not the chair of a committee. They should do away with the rule. Even if they do, they can still generally defer to senior members like the GOP does but can avoid sticky issues like those posed by Byrd.
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### Author:  [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/8 "2007-12-18T21:13:59Z")
**gonzomax** , aside from your oh-so-incredibly witty malapropism (I see what you did there – you called Republicans “repugs”!), are you seriously saying, “Because the Republicans do it” as the answer to why the DemonRats do what they do?
(I did it to! I’m ever-so-clever!)
It seems to me to be nothing more than a very powerful tradition that is on its way to being slowly chipped away at. Problem is, the people who are chipping away at it are the ones who will ultimately benefit from it, so they don’t seem to be in that much of a hurry.
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### Author:  [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/9 "2007-12-18T21:14:56Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226]
Not to answer for the OP, but the Democrats are part of the body which governs the USA, which I live in. What more reason do I need?
[/QUOTE]
We have a two party system. I let the Republicans make their own rules. I am not a republican so I could care less how they choose their leaders. In case you didn’t know…
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### Author:  [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/10 "2007-12-18T21:20:55Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic]
We have a two party system. I let the Republicans make their own rules. I am not a republican so I could care less how they choose their leaders. In case you didn’t know…
[/QUOTE]
I did not know you could care less how Republicans choose their leaders. How much do you care now?
The U.S. Senate includes members from both of those parties, doesn’t it? Both parties play a role in running the country, don’t they? Seems only reasonable that if you’re going to take an interest in how the country is run, you’re going to ask questions about a group that totals nearly half of the people who make it happen.
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### Author:  [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/11 "2007-12-18T21:26:18Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach]
It seems to me to be nothing more than a very powerful tradition that is on its way to being slowly chipped away at. Problem is, the people who are chipping away at it are the ones who will ultimately benefit from it, so they don’t seem to be in that much of a hurry.
[/QUOTE]
The problem also is that if they target Byrd, Byrd has the ability to screw them. As the chair of the Appropriations Committee he is largely responsible for how much pork is allotted to Democrats in the Senate. If you go after him (even indirectly) it is certainly conceivable that your requests will suddenly disappear from an appropriations bill.
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### Author:  [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/12 "2007-12-18T21:30:54Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226]
I did not know you could care less how Republicans choose their leaders. How much do you care now?
The U.S. Senate includes members from both of those parties, doesn’t it? Both parties play a role in running the country, don’t they? Seems only reasonable that if you’re going to take an interest in how the country is run, you’re going to ask questions about a group that totals nearly half of the people who make it happen.
[/QUOTE]
Ok I couldn’t care less smart ass, feel better? But no, I am not a republican so it is not my business how they pick their leaders. If I cared I could join the republican party. Thats what two party system means.
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### Author:  [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/13 "2007-12-18T21:39:58Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic]
Ok I couldn’t care less smart ass, feel better? But no, I am not a republican so it is not my business how they pick their leaders. If I cared I could join the republican party. Thats what two party system means.
[/QUOTE]
Not really. I like it when informed people participate in the political process.
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### Author:  [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/14 "2007-12-18T21:44:11Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226]
Not really. I like it when informed people participate in the political process.
[/QUOTE]
I like lollypops, what’s your point?
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### Author:  [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/15 "2007-12-18T21:48:48Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic]
I like lollypops, what’s your point?
[/QUOTE]
My point is that because our system is set up such that both parties participate in government (and the way it is now, in many cases nearly 50-50), it’s doesn’t make much sense to ignore half of the people who make the laws, no matter which side you’re on.
“Hey man, half your apartment building is on fire!”
“I could care less. Mine’s in the other half.”
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### Author:  [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/16 "2007-12-18T21:52:34Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226]
My point is that because our system is set up such that both parties participate in government (and the way it is now, in many cases nearly 50-50), it’s doesn’t make much sense to ignore half of the people who make the laws, no matter which side you’re on.
“Hey man, half your apartment building is on fire!”
“I could care less. Mine’s in the other half.”
[/QUOTE]
“Hey man, don’t hang that picture in your living room, it’s ugly”
“F U, Its my living room not yours”
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### Author:  [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/17 "2007-12-18T22:57:32Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto]
From the linked Politico story:
So it isn’t what _we_ have done forever. The Republicans in the Senate got rid of this stupid rule close to a decade ago, per my original post.
[/QUOTE]
Hold on a second, did the Republicans make one exception or did they do away with seniority based appointments all together?
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2007, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/18 "2007-12-18T23:11:42Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic]
“Hey man, don’t hang that picture in your living room, it’s ugly”
“F U, Its my living room not yours”
[/QUOTE]
But it’s **our** country. The committee chairpersons in Congress are not just Democratic Party leaders, they’re **national** leaders in public-policy formation, exercising great power over what does or does not get reported out of committee for a vote by the full house. Everybody has to live with the results, therefore what system they use to choose chaircritters is everybody’s business no matter which party has a majority at the moment. (As opposed to, say, how they choose the leaders of the House or Senate Democratic Caucus.)
Does anyone know a lot about the history of the seniority system? Did they ever use a different system?
It’s not hard to envision a system where every committee chairthing is elected, by the committee members or by the whole house in a floor vote – but would that be too cumbersome?
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### Author:  [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2007, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/19 "2007-12-19T00:44:18Z")
[QUOTE=treis]
Hold on a second, did the Republicans make one exception or did they do away with seniority based appointments all together?
[/QUOTE]
In addition to this change, committee chairmen are now term limited in the Republican caucus.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2007, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-democrats-rely-on-seniority-for-senate-committee-chairmanships/430458/20 "2007-12-19T01:48:24Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
Does anyone know a lot about the history of the seniority system? Did they ever use a different system?
[/QUOTE]
The seniority system in the House, at least (I don’t know as much about the Senate), dates back to just after the turn of the century. Before 1910, the Speaker picked the committee chairs. In the “St. Patrick’s Day Revolt” of 1910, the Progressive wing of the Republican party joined with the Democrat minority to strip that power from the Speaker and set up a system based on seniority, as well as taking away the Speaker’s automatic position as chairman of the Rules Committee. (The Speaker of the House at the time, “Uncle Joe” Cannon, was unpopular with a lot of the congressmen because he used his powers as Speaker to block popular Progressive reforms.) It was in 1911, when the Democrats took control of the House, that the minority party got the power to appoint its own committee members. Before that, all committee members in both parties were appointed by the Speaker.
Here’s an interesting collection of notes about the changing nature of committees.
[http://www.polisci.ccsu.edu/trieb/StrucDesc.html](http://www.polisci.ccsu.edu/trieb/StrucDesc.html)
You also might want to read this, about the evolution of the Rules Committee.
[http://rules.house.gov/archives/rules\_history.htm](http://rules.house.gov/archives/rules_history.htm)
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