# Why do the GOP's most hard-line authoritarians call themselves the "Freedom Caucus"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 24, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967 "2017-03-24T23:21:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967/61 "2017-03-27T16:50:19Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > If olive oil comes from squeezed olives, where does baby oil come from? If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967/62 "2017-03-27T17:03:18Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? And what about baby powder? What happens if you add water to it? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967/63 "2017-03-27T17:06:14Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > And what about baby powder? What happens if you add water to it? :eek: No no no. Baby powder is what is left over after you get out all the baby oil. It uses the whole baby and is good for the environment. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967/64 "2017-03-27T17:32:13Z")
> [@CosmicManiac](#): > > They are hardline conservatives and budget cutting crusaders, yes, as they believe it is necessary to eliminate as much wasteful and unnecessary spending as possible in order to help pay for Trump’s reasonable upcoming tax reform, including **lowering corporate tax rates as we have one of the highest in the world.** I see you are deeply entrenched in the Fox “News”/alt right mindset and it would be a waste of time to dissuade you from your many jingoistic, false assertions. However, I would like to address one part of your post, the bit I highlighted. Please stop mindlessly repeating this tired lie. President Obama offered to lower the corporate tax rate to a flat 28% in his 2012 bid to overhaul the US tax code and… crickets from the corporate world. Yes, 35% is one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world – that virtually **no corporation pays**. [This WaPo article explains it very well, if you can tear yourself away from reading Alex Jones](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/obama-to-propose-lowering-corporate-tax-rate-to-28-percent/2012/02/22/gIQA1sjdSR_story.html?utm_term=.72dfdb2f231e). ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967/65 "2017-03-27T19:34:20Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > In the realm of social relations among humans, those things aren’t part of nature; they’re socially-constructed. > > We’re not wolves; we’re not creatures of instinct. We’re not? How did we survive then? Regarding social construction, humans tend to flock to the strongest and most powerful for protection, just like other animals. Some social bonds aren’t taught, like family and marriage. Social constructs are meant to preserve civility, like respect for elders, obedience to laws, and so forth. Where do you get the idea that some invisible capitalist authority is controlling the survival of US citizens through forced labor? ---
**Author:** ![random6x7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8baadc/32.png) [@random6x7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/random6x7)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967/66 "2017-03-27T20:29:12Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > We’re not? How did we survive then? > > Regarding social construction, humans tend to flock to the strongest and most powerful for protection, just like other animals. Some social bonds aren’t taught, like family and marriage. Social constructs are meant to preserve civility, like respect for elders, obedience to laws, and so forth. Where do you get the idea that some invisible capitalist authority is controlling the survival of US citizens through forced labor? Nonsense. Hunter-gatherer bands tend to be cooperative, not hierarchical. Argue for or against capitalism all you want, but leave the Pleistocene out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967/67 "2017-03-27T22:39:38Z")
And the “alpha of the the pack” is kinda an outmoded caricature of wolf behavior anyway. To wit, an “alpha” can subjugate so many “betas” before they tire of his shit an oust him. Wolves can’t hire allegiance, y’know, not having capital an’ all that. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967/68 "2017-03-28T00:14:43Z")
IIRC the scientist who came up with the whole alpha/beta/omega model later came to realize that it was bullshit anyway - it was based on 1947 research, and extrapolated from the behaviour of captive animals who didn’t know each other at all. “real” wolf packs don’t work that way at all (they’re all closely related and don’t form spontaneously) ; and even the captive pack had more complex dynamics than were understood in the 70s. Which doesn’t apply to us, on account of **we’re not dogs**. Well, the MRA contingent can be vile curs, I suppose. And then there’s the [sneaky fucker thing](http://dragonflyissuesinevolution13.wikia.com/wiki/Sneaky_F*uckers), which throws yet another spoke in the works ;). Social dynamics : not reducible to a Powerpoint diagram, as it turns out. Nobody knew emergent systems could be so complicated ! ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967/69 "2017-03-28T00:37:12Z")
> [@Trancephalic](#): > > And the “alpha of the the pack” is kinda an outmoded caricature of wolf behavior anyway. To wit, an “alpha” can subjugate so many “betas” before they tire of his shit an oust him. > > Wolves can’t hire allegiance, y’know, not having capital an’ all that. Specifically, the guy who first named it was studying captive wolves. He soon realized that it was an artificial environment, and wild wolves didn’t behave that way, but his original theory gained some much traction he couldn’t overcome popular conception. ETA: should preview. The point is that a given wolf may be dominant at any given time, just like humans, but there isn’t some strict social dynamic as popularly known. Orangutans have “sneaky fuckers” who employ a mating strategy known officially as “sneak and rape” :eek: Other orang males just sit back and bellow for mates. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967/70 "2017-03-28T01:31:22Z")
So, are you guys saying **Beren Erchamion** is actually right? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967/71 "2017-03-28T02:30:48Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > You should be on high alert around any group or law with the following words in their title: > > - Freedom > - Family > - Moral > - Patriot > - Heartland > - Liberty > - Values This. They are big red flags. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967/72 "2017-03-28T05:13:15Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > So, are you guys saying **Beren Erchamion** is actually right? This is the pit; do you want an actual debate? Because we could discuss whether either taxation or private property ownership could be considered theft, and whether the continual upward distribution of wealth due to all of the return from productivity gains going to the top is leading us to corporate feudalism, whether we should actually be taxing returns to capital at a lower rate than wages, etc. I think Alpha males are boring and jerkish, but I don’t think capitalism is necessarily slavery. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967/73 "2017-03-28T13:06:15Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > So you can’t read? > > Because I never said the problem was work–the problem is capitalist employment. Yes, I know what you wrote (not “said,” if we’re into questioning who can or can’t read) and I’m disagreeing. The problem is capitalist employment… as opposed to the fantastic wonders of what? Work sucks. It sucks in non-capitalist employment, both in generally capitalist systems and in non-capitalist systems. Sorry to burst your bubble. You’re not the only one who’s read Marx, pal. You’re presenting no revelations here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-gops-most-hard-line-authoritarians-call-themselves-the-freedom-caucus/782967.md?page=3)