# why do the Iraqi protesters want us to leave? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 18, 2003, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608 "2003-04-18T18:21:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![horhay\_achoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@horhay\_achoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horhay_achoa)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/1 "2003-04-18T18:21:52Z")
I want to start by saying I don’t really know anything about this war, or politics in general, so I am not going to be able to contribute much to this debate. I was going to post it in GQ, but I think the subject matter would have turned it into a debate anyway, so I am going to post it here… Why are there so many Iraqi people protesting to get the U.S. out of Iraq? I mean just last week they were dancing in the streets, now they want us to leave? The thing that confuses me the most is this: what do they think is going to happen if we leave? I think the most likely result of us leaving would be that Saddam, or people loyal to him, would take their remaining tanks and military supplies and use them to get back into power. The second most likely scenario I can see is that some other dictator rises to power. It just seems to me that a legitimate government has no chance of forming out of total anarchy. At least with U.S. forces there to keep the bad guys from strong arming their way back to the top, there is a chance that some form of democracy could get started. I don’t know… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/2 "2003-04-18T18:28:27Z")
Because they did not see Cheney’s memo? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/3 "2003-04-18T18:29:44Z")
> [@](#): > > The demonstration was peaceful, news agencies reported, but it provided dramatic new evidence that the ouster of Saddam Hussein’s secular government **has unleashed pent-up religious sentiment** , especially among the country’s long-repressed Shiite Muslim majority. In the absence of strong government, Islam often provides the organizing principle, and the civic institutions, of Muslim societies. > > **Converging from several mosques, the demonstrators carried banners with such slogans as “No Bush, No Saddam, Yes to Islam,” and “No to America, No to Secular State, Yes to Islamic State.”** Organizers said the demonstrators included both Shiite Muslims and Sunnis, who represent the majority branch of Islam is most Muslim countries but a minority in Iraq. Source: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50762-2003Apr18.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50762-2003Apr18.html) Does this help? ---
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/4 "2003-04-18T18:29:59Z")
because America is _ **The Most EVIL And GREATEST Of All SATANS!!!** _ ---
**Author:** ![jbird3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/aeb1de/32.png) [@jbird3000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jbird3000)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/5 "2003-04-18T18:36:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by horhay\_achoa \* > **I mean just last week they were dancing in the streets, now they want us to leave?** Because those are different people? “I mean just last month America wanted to invade Iraq, now I see an anti-war protest?” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/6 "2003-04-18T18:39:15Z")
> [@](#): > > I mean just last week they were dancing in the streets, _Some_ of them were dancing in the streets. Others were shooting at us, trying to blow us up, and generally condemning out high-handed attitude. While they probably are glad that the Ba’ath party is pretty well destroyed, many are quite fearful that the U.S. intends to set up a new puppet regime. (The prime figure hinted to be the U.S. choice to head up the interim government was originally chosen simply to organize the infrastructure while a government was created. He then began lobbying certain members of the GOP to be allowed to run the whole show, even though he has not lived in the country for 30 years, or so.) We may do the right thing, but they have no way of knowing that. Given our sterling examples of Diem in Vietnam, the Shah in Iran, Armas in Guatemala, and our support for such democratic-minded individuals as Marcos, Suharto, Batista, Somoza, and others, I think their fears are not unexpected. ---
**Author:** ![horhay\_achoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@horhay\_achoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horhay_achoa)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/7 "2003-04-18T18:44:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duckster \* > \*\*Source: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50762-2003Apr18.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50762-2003Apr18.html) > > Does this help? \*\* Does this mean that the protesters think that a legitimate and fair government would form just by following the teachings of Islam? I don’t know much about Islam, but I am sure the main pillars are similar to most other religions. Be kind, don’t steal, don’t kill…blah, blah, blah. If that is the case then, yeah, maybe they don’t need us. They can work it out, but are they really that naive? Can they honestly think that religion will guide them through this? Do they really believe that no one will try to rise to power? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/8 "2003-04-18T18:47:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by horhay\_achoa \* > It just seems to me that a legitimate government has no chance of forming out of total anarchy. At least with U.S. forces there to keep the bad guys from strong arming their way back to the top, there is a chance that some form of democracy could get started. I don’t know… They don’t want our help. Maybe you didn’t know this, but the Arab world hates the U.S. government. A lot of it has to do with our support for Isreal. It might help to understand if you take a step back and let go of your black & white thinking where the U.S. are the “good guys” and the Arabs are the “bad guys”. You can’t expect the people of Iraq to view it that way. They don’t want the U.S. to rule their country, because they see it as the Christian world trying to take over the Muslim world. They hated Saddam, but a lot of them hate the U.S. even more. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/9 "2003-04-18T18:51:17Z")
they want to be able to determine their own destiny, not have another destiny thrust upon them. Of course idiots will try to rise in power, that happens everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/10 "2003-04-18T18:51:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by horhay\_achoa \* > \*\*Does this mean that the protesters think that a legitimate and fair government would form just by following the teachings of Islam? I don’t know much about Islam, but I am sure the main pillars are similar to most other religions. Be kind, don’t steal, don’t kill…blah, blah, blah. If that is the case then, yeah, maybe they don’t need us. They can work it out, but are they really that naive? Can they honestly think that religion will guide them through this? Do they really believe that no one will try to rise to power? \*\* Yeah, but again - look at it from their point of view. They don’t want a U.S. puppet in power, either. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/11 "2003-04-18T19:00:47Z")
Partially because many of them don’t like our culture or what it stands for (the secularist non-islam, the nonthe support of israel, the modernization), many have been raised to scapegoat us for their own countries screw ups and believe in conspiracy theories and as a result don’t trust/like us. Plus most don’t want to be humiliated by living under US occupation. Read some of Fouad Ajami’s articles. [http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20030101faessay10218/fouad-ajami/iraq-and-the-arabs-future.html](http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20030101faessay10218/fouad-ajami/iraq-and-the-arabs-future.html) I’d suggest reading Daniel Pipes as well. Sad part is if we leave who knows what’ll happen. maybe a civil war like Somalia will take hold and warlords will rise to power. we should bring in foreigners to run things. ---
**Author:** ![horhay\_achoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@horhay\_achoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horhay_achoa)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/12 "2003-04-18T19:04:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*They don’t want our help. Maybe you didn’t know this, but the Arab world hates the U.S. government. A lot of it has to do with our support for Isreal. It might help to understand if you take a step back and let go of your black & white thinking where the U.S. are the “good guys” and the Arabs are the “bad guys”. You can’t expect the people of Iraq to view it that way. They don’t want the U.S. to rule their country, because they see it as the Christian world trying to take over the Muslim world. They hated Saddam, but a lot of them hate the U.S. even more. \*\* I do not think we are the “good guys” and the Arabs are the “bad guys”. Some of people in the U.S. are good and some are bad, and the same applies to all other parts of the world. This is not the debate I was aiming for in the OP though. I know that not ALL Iraqis want us out. I was just wondering what the people that do want us out think is going to happen if we leave. Maybe the answer is that they think we are so “bad” that they are willing to face any consequences to have us out rather than let us help. Do you think that is the case? ---
**Author:** ![horhay\_achoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@horhay\_achoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horhay_achoa)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/13 "2003-04-18T19:06:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Calculus of Logic \* > \*\*we should bring in foreigners to run things. \*\* I like that idea, but I assume there is some problem with that too? ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/14 "2003-04-18T19:19:04Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## Originally posted by The Calculus of Logic we should bring in foreigners to run things. > > I like that idea, but I assume there is some problem with that too? Yeah, like the group of people that could run things, and the group of people who the Iraqis wouldn’t hate, are mutually exclusive. The best compromise between the two would likely be Turkey - they’re at least Arab, and their own attempt at democracy seems to be going well - except Turkey would probably just go in and grab all the Kurdish territory. We’re just going to have to find someone the Iraqis can trust, and get their backing. The get the hell out as fast as we reasonably can. Jeff ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/15 "2003-04-18T19:20:13Z")
Horhay: There can be any number of reasons: 1. Some want to quickly fill the power vacuum themselves so they get their form of gov’t, and not ours. I’m sure many want an Islamic state-- perhaps a backlash against SH’s secularism. 2. Some may be truely anti-Western, anti-American and think we’re there to steal their oil. 3. Iraq has a history of invasions, and of hating invaders. Like it or not, we are seen by many as invaders. 4. I’ll bet that some ARE naiive and even if they don’t want an Islamic state, think they can get their won democractic gov’t going w/o our help. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/16 "2003-04-18T19:21:17Z")
Jeff: Surely you know that Turks are Turks, not Arabs. BIG difference. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/17 "2003-04-18T19:24:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by horhay\_achoa \* > Maybe the answer is that they think we are so “bad” that they are willing to face any consequences to have us out rather than let us help. Do you think that is the case? Yes, I do. They aren’t all of one mind, though. Some Iraqis have complained that the U.S. forces didn’t do _enough_ to keep order after toppling the government, while others just want them gone. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/18 "2003-04-18T19:35:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElJeffe \* > The best compromise between the two would likely be Turkey - they’re at least Arab, and their own attempt at democracy seems to be going well - except Turkey would probably just go in and grab all the Kurdish territory. The Turks are not Arabs. They are Turkic. There is a large and growing fundamentalist movement there, too, putting a strain on their democracy on the order of the Kurdish rebellion in Turkey’s southeast. They did mass troops along the border in clear preparation for what you suspect, though. > [@](#): > > We’re just going to have to find someone the Iraqis can trust, and get their backing. The get the hell out as fast as we reasonably can. Good luck. Bush alienated all the plausible candidates beforehand - both the individual nations and the pre-eminent international organization. Sorry, champ, he stuck us US taxpayers and terrorism targets with the entire responsibility for years to come, for better or worse. Many of us tried to explain _that_ beforehand, too. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/19 "2003-04-18T19:40:25Z")
**horhay** , Islamic law, called “Sharia”, is well-established and codified, and even the basis for the effective law of several nations. While not necessarily desirable, implementing it is hardly a naive concept. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608/20 "2003-04-18T19:53:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \* > Sorry, champ, he stuck us US taxpayers and terrorism targets with the entire responsibility for years to come, for better or worse. Many of us tried to explain _that_ beforehand, too. Maybe the Little Red Hen got more than she bargained for.☹ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-iraqi-protesters-want-us-to-leave/169608.md?page=2)