# Why do the Israelis build settlements? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273 "2011-07-25T15:35:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/181 "2011-07-28T18:04:45Z")
Israel’s Supreme Court ruled Thursday that the state has the “authority in principle” to erect the separation barrier on occupied Palestinian territory inside the West Bank, once again rejecting the non-binding July 2004 International Court of Justice decision that the West Bank barrier is illegal under international law and must be dismantled. Meanwhile, Israeli human rights groups released a new report challenging the reasoning behind the supposed security barrier… The court ruling also upheld previous domestic and international legal rulings that concluded the West Bank was held by Israel in “belligerent occupation.” > **[FromOccupiedPalestine.org](http://www.top-hotels-cy.com/en/fromoccupiedpalestine.html)** > > All hotels in Cyprus. The best selection of Cyprus hotels with reviews and maps. Book in advance and save. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/182 "2011-07-28T18:29:47Z")
Interesting, a cite that’s six years out of date, not in a quote box, and evidently part of some sort of argument-by-free-association. By the way, readers should note that [there is extensive and compelling reasoning as to why Israel’s Supreme Court rejected the non-binding opinion](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10761808&postcount=142). We’ve been over this before. Pay particular attention to the comments by the judges on the ICJ who had the courage to note that they were being asked to rule on whether or not something was justified by military necessity while deliberately avoiding any analysis of military necessity. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/183 "2011-07-28T18:49:33Z")
Another viewpoint on Supreme Court [decisions.](http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Politics/terrorirm_law.pdf) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/184 "2011-07-28T23:52:58Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > Israel’s Supreme Court ruled Thursday that the state has the “authority in principle” This ruling wasn’t “last Thursday” it was in 2005. Did you actually read it? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/185 "2011-07-28T23:58:24Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Sorry but Israel was excercising Emminent Domain the same as LA. Except for (A) fair compensation, and (B) it not being Israel. We usually see false equivalence done much more expertly here. > [@](#): > > That’s similar to many forms of urban renewal that occur throughout the West and the Third World. Oh, dear, sweet Lord … ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/186 "2011-07-29T00:31:24Z")
So Elvis, Then to be perfectly clear you have no proble with the City of Los Angelos seizing the land of thousands if not tens of thousands of Mexican-Americans, many of who had been living there since before California was stolen by the US from Mexico, and throwing them off their land so that Waltar O’Malley could build Dodger Stadium(this happened in the 50s) but you consider the Israeli government seizing the land of a handful of Palestinians for military purposes to be a disgusting human rights violation, even though the US has done the same to the people of Puerto Rico and Guam? Please explain your reasoning as to why fucking over thousands of Mexican-Americans is ok, but not the Palestinians. Please explain your reasoning to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/187 "2011-07-29T00:40:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Oh, dear, sweet Lord … Apparently you’re not aware how it works in most countries. Governments regularly seize land for government purposes and throw people off it. For example Nasser threw 70,000 people off their land to build the Al Aswan dam. It also happens in many western countries and typically poor minorities are the ones affected(though not always such as in Kelo) so as a result the vast majority of middle-class and upper-middle class whites don’t care about it. Israel is just doing the same thing. Personally I don’t like it when done by the US, Egypt, or Israel, but I’m disgusted by the hypocrisy of only criticizing Israel for it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/188 "2011-07-29T02:24:15Z")
> [@Darth\_Ayebaw](#): > > That doesn’t explain why they build though. Wyoming is ours but there’s no one rushing to settle there. Even if it is their land, it’s still a provocative thing to do whether it should be or not. What I mean is, it increases tensions, so why build in the ‘occupied territories’ specifically? Why not just build on what is more commonly recognized as Israel? Is there just not enough space? I take it it’d be safer to do so. Maybe cheaper. So why not? That’s pretty much what I’m getting at. > > Thanks for the input everyone. I know it’s unlikely to get a definitive answer everyone agrees on, but at least having more info on the subject is nice. In border disputes, possession is 9/10 of the law. Part of it is no doubt due to population pressures and rising real estate prices. Part of it is also in anticipation of some future resolution. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/189 "2011-07-29T05:49:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So Elvis, > > Then to be perfectly clear you have no proble with the City of Los Angelos seizing the land of thousands if not tens of thousands of Mexican-Americans, many of who had been living there since before California was stolen by the US from Mexico, and throwing them off their land so that Waltar O’Malley could build Dodger Stadium(this happened in the 50s) but you consider the Israeli government seizing the land of a handful of Palestinians for military purposes to be a disgusting human rights violation, even though the US has done the same to the people of Puerto Rico and Guam? > > Please explain your reasoning as to why fucking over thousands of Mexican-Americans is ok, but not the Palestinians. > > Please explain your reasoning to me. Well, there is a difference. AFAIK, no one in any position of power, in either country, is seriously questioning the placement of the US-Mexico border anymore, and neither was that happening in 1959. But is that true for the territory in which Israel is building settlements? My understanding is that the Palestinians are not acknowledging the right of Israel to occupy this territory at all. Yes, people do get hurt when a government exercises eminent domain, and L.A. was no exception. Not only the Dodger Stadium event, but also the Bunker Hill projects essentially wiped out most of the downtown population, and with it most of the retail businesses they supported. P.S. You’d think people would know how to spell Los Angeles. It’s not as if we’re one of those minor burgs like Fresne or Bakersfeld. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/190 "2011-07-29T06:12:05Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Well, there is a difference. AFAIK, no one in any position of power, in either country, is seriously questioning the placement of the US-Mexico border anymore, and neither was that happening in 1959. But is that true for the territory in which Israel is building settlements? My understanding is that the Palestinians are not acknowledging the right of Israel to occupy this territory at all. > > Yes, people do get hurt when a government exercises eminent domain, and L.A. was no exception. Not only the Dodger Stadium event, but also the Bunker Hill projects essentially wiped out most of the downtown population, and with it most of the retail businesses they supported. > > P.S. You’d think people would know how to spell Los Angeles. It’s not as if we’re one of those minor burgs like Fresne or Bakersfeld. 😃 The territory didn’t belong to the Palestinians before the Israelis took it in a defensive war. It was controlled by Jordan which regularly seized land and threw people off it when it suited the needs of the government. Anyway, the Israelis claimed they control the territory, and while the incident mentioned is wrong, I see now reason why it’s worse than the US Navy’s treatment of the people of Puerto Rico or, for that matter, the Israeli treatment of the Negev Bedouins. The only difference is that the Israelis aren’t fucking over remotely as many people as various governments within the US have done. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/191 "2011-07-29T07:55:49Z")
For some years I have assumed they object to it. This is not limited to them. Actually, I have explained why my dogs react to some things is because they object to it. They have managed to ignore kids on skates and the mailman, but there is something basic they object to. I’d suggest it is to “people infringing on the land of others,” which as an American I would object to, but they are only dogs. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/192 "2011-07-29T08:03:04Z")
ETA: A sharp and less-than-heartfelt doesn’t work. They, as mere DOGS, managed to figure out Justice before I met them. If there is anything dogs know, beyond who peed there, is territory. You lose, according to my dogs. Where your Bible peed there wore out centuries ago. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/193 "2011-07-29T08:12:53Z")
Ah, Argumentum Ad Woof Woof. Well played sir, well played. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/194 "2011-07-29T13:59:20Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > It’s impossible even if the settlements disappear tomorrow. The issue is now, and always will be, the mere existence of the State of Israel. That Egypt and Jordan had the foresight to make a lasting peace doesn’t eliminate the immense ill-will that the Arabs have for Israel. [In fact, 92% of all Egyptians think of Israel as their primary enemy to this day](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt-Israel_relations#Public_opinion). > > This is never going to go away unless Israel is either conquered or packs up and leaves on its own. Want odds on that? I’d say there’s a better chance of the Arab world repudiating the [Three “Nos” of the Khartoum Resolution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khartoum_Resolution), which is to say, none at all. I am pretty sure the Jordan and Egypt have in fact negotiated with Israel and the Arab Peace Initiative making peace with Israel, recognizing Israel and establishing diplomatic relations with Israel was passed. There are conditions which Israel is not likely to accept (1967 borders, a two state solution which leaves East Jerusalem in the hands of the Palestinians and a “just resolution” of the Palestinian refugee problem). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/195 "2011-07-29T15:08:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > More like “possession is 9/10 of the law.” Damn, beat me to it (by a couple of days.) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/196 "2011-07-29T15:16:10Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > And what’s this **Marley**? When the modding occurs in an Israel thread it is more often than not triggered by something Israel critics say and they also frequently mention Israel apologists but the post that triggers modding is more often than not the posts of Israel critics. Accept it and adapt to it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/197 "2011-07-29T15:26:43Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Indeed, the US government has often seized people’s land for military use. > > For example, the Navy and the people of Puerto Rico have long been in a pissing contest on related issues. > > In this instance all I know comes from the AI article that SA linked to but apparently misread since he thought it said they were kicked out for being Palestinian. > > Anyway, while deplorable, governments do that kind of thing all the time and often the people who lose their homes are poor minorities. > > Hopefully SA can explain how Israel is behaving differently than the City of Los Angelos and the US government. Puerto Ricans are American citizens. They can freely move to America and vote. So its a bit different than exercising eminent domain on an occupied territory. If Israel want to claim the territory then they should do so (and either expel or naturalize its inhabitants). ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/198 "2011-07-29T15:30:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Somehow I don’t think this was intended to be a compliment. Knock it off or take it to The BBQ Pit. If Alessan isn’t paid to post propaganda on here he really ought to be. That’s not a personal attack, I honestly believe he is paid. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/199 "2011-07-29T15:32:53Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So Elvis, > > Then to be perfectly clear you have no proble with the City of Los Angelos seizing the land of thousands if not tens of thousands of Mexican-Americans, many of who had been living there since before California was stolen by the US from Mexico, and throwing them off their land so that Waltar O’Malley could build Dodger Stadium(this happened in the 50s) but you consider the Israeli government seizing the land of a handful of Palestinians for military purposes to be a disgusting human rights violation, even though the US has done the same to the people of Puerto Rico and Guam? > > Please explain your reasoning as to why fucking over thousands of Mexican-Americans is ok, but not the Palestinians. > > Please explain your reasoning to me. Because those Mexicans can vote. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/200 "2011-07-29T15:41:57Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Because those Mexicans can vote. Did they get to vote on Dodger Stadium? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273.md?page=11)