# Why do the Israelis build settlements? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273 "2011-07-25T15:35:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/161 "2011-07-28T01:02:25Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What Israel was doing was declaring one valley because of it’s proximity to the Jordanian border “a closed military area” and forcing people to move for security reasons. > > That’s similar to many forms of urban renewal that occur throughout the West and the Third World. .. Oh, for God’s sake. Would you listen to yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/162 "2011-07-28T01:07:23Z")
> [@Sal\_Ammoniac](#): > > Oh, for God’s sake. Would you listen to yourself? That’s fairly non-responsive. Perhaps you’d like to rephrase. I corrected a mistake you made assertions about what an article since the article didn’t say what you claimed it said. Now, since you’re disgusted with the Israeli government’s forcing people to move from an area for security reasons can we assume that you’re also disgusted by the far greater scale examples of urban renewal in the West were vastly more poor minorities are kicked out of their homes for the building of baseball stadiums? ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/163 "2011-07-28T01:12:18Z")
If you can justify Israel’s actions in that case, I have to think there are few Israeli outrages you wouldn’t justify. You’ve lost any sense of perspective here for the sake of mere argumentation. Let’s see how many other Dopers you can convince that the example in question is “just like urban renewal.” For my sake, I think your worldview is so alien to my own that any discussion of the point is going to be no more fruitful for me than for you. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/164 "2011-07-28T01:34:15Z")
> [@Sal\_Ammoniac](#): > > If you can justify Israel’s actions in that case, I have to think there are few Israeli outrages you wouldn’t justify. You’ve lost any sense of perspective here for the sake of mere argumentation. > > Let’s see how many other Dopers you can convince that the example in question is “just like urban renewal.” For my sake, I think your worldview is so alien to my own that any discussion of the point is going to be no more fruitful for me than for you. I didn’t justify Israel’s actions. That said please explain to me why Israel kicking thirty Palestinians out of their home is worse than the City of Los Angelos kicking thousands of Mexican-Americans out of their’s to build Dodger Stadium? Sorry but Israel was excercising Emminent Domain the same as LA. Personally I think both are wring but you seem to only object to the Israelis doing it. Why? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/165 "2011-07-28T01:37:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What Israel was doing was declaring one valley because of it’s proximity to the Jordanian border “a closed military area” and forcing people to move for security reasons. All I can find from Rabbi Google is that the were in a “closed military area” that was used as a shooting range. Perhaps they didn’t want these families blow up by student pilots. The USAF claims they will shoot you in Area 51 if I may also compare Israeli deeds to American. Alessan, do you have any info on this? ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/166 "2011-07-28T01:47:44Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I didn’t justify Israel’s actions. > > That said please explain to me why Israel kicking thirty Palestinians out of their home is worse than the City of Los Angelos kicking thousands of Mexican-Americans out of their’s to build Dodger Stadium? > > Sorry but Israel was excercising Emminent Domain the same as LA. A) It’s not 30 Palestinians. That was a single cite for a single instance. There are more out there if you care to look for them. B) You can’t exercise eminent domain on land you don’t own. If the Israeli government actually asserts ownership of the land in question, I’d like to see your cite for that. C) The Palestinians, not being citizens of Israel (or indeed anything) have zero say in the process, zero recourse, and apparently zero compensation. The Israeli government – not God – declares the area a “closed military area” by fiat, and acts as it wishes. That’s simple tyranny. The situation is absolutely outrageous, and it’s outrageous that you would minimize it. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/167 "2011-07-28T01:48:33Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > All I can find from Rabbi Google is that the were in a “closed military area” that was used as a shooting range. Perhaps they didn’t want these families blow up by student pilots. The USAF claims they will shoot you in Area 51 if I may also compare Israeli deeds to American. > > Alessan, do you have any info on this? Indeed, the US government has often seized people’s land for military use. For example, the Navy and the people of Puerto Rico have long been in a pissing contest on related issues. In this instance all I know comes from the AI article that SA linked to but apparently misread since he thought it said they were kicked out for being Palestinian. Anyway, while deplorable, governments do that kind of thing all the time and often the people who lose their homes are poor minorities. Hopefully SA can explain how Israel is behaving differently than the City of Los Angelos and the US government. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/168 "2011-07-28T01:58:46Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I didn’t justify Israel’s actions. That’s just how it works ‘round here. There are some folks whose arguments’ stock in trade is factual error, oversimplification and distortion. Calling 'em on it makes you the worst kind of nogoodnik. You’ll note, of course, that Sal immediately went on the attack and has not retracted let alone apologized for his distortion whereby moving a population for military necessity is really the same thing as moving them simply because they’re Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/169 "2011-07-28T02:07:04Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Hopefully SA can explain how Israel is behaving differently than the City of Los Angelos and the US government. One thing I noted in my Googling is that they were temporary structures. One of the parties claiming ownership, Israel, Jordan, Syria, I’m too lazy to reGoogel, has a law that you must have a permanent structure to claim ownership. They may have razed “permanent structures” to insure there would be no claim based on such homes being present. I do hope it’s that they didn’t want anyone killed because they had a tent in the middle of a military practice range. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/170 "2011-07-28T02:13:30Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Hopefully SA can explain how Israel is behaving differently than the City of Los Angelos and the US government. What would be the use? I gave you A, B and C in my last post. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/171 "2011-07-28T02:42:44Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > As it is a war crime, this is a proper argument for this dissolution of the state of Israel and the trial and execution of its political class. One more stupid claim such as this–in which you call for the killing of an entire “class” of people to satisfy your own personal dreams, (as no legitimate juridical group in the world calls the actions to which you refer “war crimes”), and you will be out of this thread with your posting privileges under review. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/172 "2011-07-28T02:44:57Z")
> [@Sal\_Ammoniac](#): > > What would be the use? I gave you A, B and C in my last post. So then you think the City of Los Angelos throwing thousands of poor, politically powerless Mexican Americans out of their homes to build Dodger Stadium(which they did when Walter O’Malley moved the Dodgers to LA) is ok but Israel moving 30 Palestinians out of an area for military security is a gross human rights violation? Nope, no hypocrisy there. I always find it amusing how many middle class and privileged white westerners like to wag their fingers at Israel, but when pointed out to their own governments treatment of minorities suddenly change their tune. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/173 "2011-07-28T02:46:13Z")
EVERYONE: There will be no more observations regarding the honesty, intelligence, motivations, or personalities of other posters. Stick to discussing the facts (and your interpretations of them) and refrain from posting about other posters. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/174 "2011-07-28T03:03:31Z")
I hear and obey. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/175 "2011-07-28T03:42:09Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > **Hillary Clinton** Well what can you expect, they are only Jews. > **IDF** … sure but they’re Jews; and so are we! You might be on dangerous ground here. I may have missed something in the news where HC put her foot fully in her mouth this way, but I tend to doubt it. Unless you can find give a cite for the above, don’t spread ignorance by using public figures as your personal ventriloquist’s dummies. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/176 "2011-07-28T07:43:49Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > One more stupid claim such as this–in which you call for the killing of an entire “class” of people to satisfy your own personal dreams, **(as no legitimate juridical group in the world calls the actions to which you refer “war crimes”)**, and you will be out of this thread with your posting privileges under review. > > [/Moderating] Less than 5 minutes on google: [Intl Laws Belligerent Occupation](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5936.htm) > [@](#): > > … So this is not a symmetrical situation. **As matters of fact and of law, the gross and repeated violations of Palestinian rights by the Israeli army and Israeli settlers living illegally in occupied Palestine constitute war crimes**. Conversely, the Palestinian People are defending themselves and their Land and their Homes against Israeli war crimes and Israeli war criminals, both military and civilian… [Settlements are a war crime](http://mondoweiss.net/2011/01/ashrawi-in-iht-settlements-are-a-war-crime.html) > [@](#): > > It is universally recognized that Israeli settlements are illegal under international law, and that without a full cessation of all settlement activity, Palestinian-Israeli negotiations and the two-state solution are both doomed. In spite of the dilution of American public statements, the United States still recognizes settlements as illegal. Not only are they a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention; under the Rome Statute, **they are considered a war crime.** > > …This is not rocket science. _emphases added_ ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/177 "2011-07-28T08:56:56Z")
Readers will, of course, note that neither is a judicial group. Readers should also note that the first link represents the thoughts of, shall we say, a less than balanced individual. Let’s see some other things he has to say: [ > [@](#): > > Like unto a pirate, the Defendant is hostis humani generis: The enemy of all humankind! For the good of all humanity, this Tribunal must condemn and repudiate the Federal Government of the United States of America and its grotesque vision of a “New World Order” > […] > This Tribunal must also issue an Order that formally proscribes the federal Government of the United States of America as a Criminal Conspiracy and a Criminal Organization. This Tribunal must also issue a separate Order mandating the dissolution of the Federal Government of the United States of America as a legal and political entity. ]([Verdict of the International Tribunal of Indigenous Peoples and Oppressed Nations in the USA | 4strugglemag](http://4strugglemag.org/2007/05/11/verdict-of-the-international-tribunal-of-indigenous-peoples-and-oppressed-nations-in-the-usa/)) The second person is also, likewise, not a judicial group. Let’s see some other things that she has to say. In reference to two Israeli soldiers, in uniform, driving a car with Israeli plates, who were arrested and then literally torn to pieces by a lynch mob, were really undercover members of a “death squad” infiltrating a protest rally. No, seriously. [ > [@](#): > > The two undercover Israeli agents that had infiltrated the march were recognised by the Palestinians as members of the Death Squads that had been responsible for assassinations and provocations. (Jordan Times, Oct. 29, 2000) ]([Ha’aretz Gives Hanan Ashrawi a Makeover | CAMERA](http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_article=864&x_context=2)) How about on the subject of international law? Is she trustworthy? [ > [@](#): > > Ashrawi: “According to our firm position and national consensus and according to the terms of reference of the negotiations, 242 deals with all the occupied territories. East Jerusalem is part of the occupied territories.” (BBC News Hour, July 21, 2000) > > CAMERA: Resolution 242 does not require Israel to withdraw from “all the occupied territories.” After difficult negotiations, the resolution was carefully worded to require that Israel withdraw from “territories” rather than “the territories.” This construction, leaving out “the,” was intentional, because it was not envisioned that Israel would withdraw from all the territories, thereby returning to the vulnerable pre-war borders. And any withdrawal would be such as to create “secure and recognized boundaries.” > > The British UN Ambassador at the time, Lord Caradon, who introduced the resolution to the Council, has stated that, “It would have been wrong to demand that Israel return to its position of June 4, 1967, because those positions were undesirable and artificial.” > > America’s UN Ambassador at the time, former Supreme Court Justice Arthur Goldberg, has stated that, “The notable omissions – which were not accidental – in regard to withdrawal are the words ‘the’ or ‘all’ and the June 5, 1967 lines’ … the resolution speaks of withdrawal from occupied territories without defining the extent of withdrawal.” This would encompass “less than a complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from occupied territory, inasmuch as Israel’s prior frontiers had proved to be notably insecure.” > > The reasoning of the United States and its allies at the time was clear: Any resolution which, in the face of the aggressive war launched in 1967 against Israel, required complete Israeli withdrawal, would have been seen as a reward for aggression and an invitation to future aggression. This is assuredly not what the UN voted for, or had in mind, when it passed Resolution 242. > > There is one final thing to be said concerning the missing “the.” Some commentators have argued that because the French “version” of 242 does contain the phrase “the territories,” the resolution does in fact require total Israeli withdrawal. This is incorrect – the practice in the UN is that the binding version of any resolution is the one voted upon, which is always in the language of the introducing party. In the case of 242 that party was Great Britain, thus the binding version of 242 is in English. The French translation is irrelevant. ]([Hanan Ashrawi’s Propaganda | CAMERA](http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=8&x_nameinnews=2&x_article=191)) Okay, but in general, is she an honest person? [ > [@](#): > > Ashrawi: “Arafat was not only ready [to make a peace deal], but he actually prepared his constituency for peace.” (The Connection, WBUR, July 28, 2000) > > CAMERA: Arafat has never prepared his constituency for peace; he has prepared his people for war. Even in the midst of the Camp David discussions, militaristic pronouncements and anti-Israel incitement continued unabated. Contradictory or dovish comments were noticeably absent in the PA media. Examples follow: > > 1. “The Palestinian people are in a state of emergency in view of the failure [to achieve an agreement] at Camp David… The next Intifada will be much more severe and violent than the first - the official forewarned - since the Palestinian people [have] weapons enabling it to defend themselves in a confrontation with the Israeli army.” (Statement by a senior PA security official, Kul Al-Arab, July 14, 2000, and translated by MEMRI) > > 2. “The popular recruitment in the PA’s territories has significantly increased, and a Palestinian Liberation Army was established under the Fatah leadership. The PA has already distributed weapons to the citizens and is supervising training and preparation for the possible confrontation with the forces of the Israeli occupation.” (Same senior PA security official as quoted above, Kul Al-Arab, July 21, 2000, translated by MEMRI) > > […] > 4. “The Fatah movement [Arafat’s movement in the PLO] announced a general call-up in its ranks as a preparation for the next stage. The movement announced the opening of registration for boys until the age of 16, for weapons training . . . The individual responsible for the movement made it clear that the movement will offer military weapons training to all boys under the age of 16, and noted that there is a strong response on the part of the boys.” (Al Hayat Al-Jadidya, July 20, 2000, translated by Palestinian Media Watch (PMW)) > > 1. Palestinian TV contributed to the tense, military atmosphere by running broadcasts of military parades and violence against Israeli soldiers. In the program “Fathers and Sons,” the announcer directed the voice-over of the soldiers on air: “Oh Satan’s agents, oh enemies of mankind. I am Man the son of Man, I have been robbed, I have been pursued, I am frightened, every day I die. . . and in my death, is life; I am the flame of life.” (July 21, 2000, translated by PMW) > > 2. While Camp David discussions were still underway, Palestinian children were enrolled in Palestinian Authority-run camps of their own where they learned weapons training and how to kidnap Israelis, among other militaristic skills. According to the official PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadida: “Brig. General Salim El-Wadia, who is responsible for the ‘Political Education’ in the Gaza Strip said: “We organize these camps within the framework of the general training program … and this includes military training. We tell them [the boys] that there will not be peace without the return [of millions of Arab refugees from around the world] without the freeing of prisoners [Arab terrorists jailed in Israel], and without the establishing of an independent Palestinian state whose capital is Jerusalem. We want peace, while the Israelis only want co-existence that will impede our independence, our honor, and our sovereignty.” Next to the report is a picture of young children learning how to use automatic weapons (July 18, 2000, translated by PMW). ]([Hanan Ashrawi’s Propaganda | CAMERA](http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=8&x_nameinnews=2&x_article=191)) …oh ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/178 "2011-07-28T14:07:12Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > Less than 5 minutes on google: > > [Intl Laws Belligerent Occupation](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5936.htm) > > [Settlements are a war crime](http://mondoweiss.net/2011/01/ashrawi-in-iht-settlements-are-a-war-crime.html) _emphases added_ Sevvy, what makes Hanan Ashrawi an expert on international law? By such standards, the fact that Bibi insists they aren’t illegal and that the territories are “disputed territories” rather than “occupied territories” means that we should view them as such. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/179 "2011-07-28T14:49:45Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Sevvy, what makes Hanan Ashrawi an expert on international law? Because Ashrawi also calls settlers legitimate [targets](http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=8&x_nameinnews=2&x_article=186). Duh. > [@Hanran Ashrawi to the AP on November 15](#): > > …the settlers have become legitimate and select targets of Palestinian resistance Likewise the quoted professor, in the link provided by dear **Sev** , justifies the attack against civilian settlers, since they are all, he declares, war criminals. Therefore the individual is, of course, representative of a “legitimate juridical group”. > [@Francis Boyle](#): > > the Palestinian People are defending themselves and their Land and their Homes against Israeli war crimes and Israeli war criminals, both military and civilian. Again, duh. Well what do expect from less than 5 minutes on google? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273/180 "2011-07-28T16:53:03Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > Less than 5 minutes on google: . . . that fails to refute my point. None of your sources are legitimate judicial entities. They are all partisans of your beliefs imposing their interpretations on the events. You are free to argue that they are correct. You are not free to espouse killing an entire “class” of people or the destruction of a nation based on that personal interpretation. That is nothing more than trolling to pick a fight with your opponents. [/Moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-israelis-build-settlements/590273.md?page=10)