# Why do the Massachusetts senators continue their stupid pontifications? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 28, 2006, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943 "2006-01-28T02:39:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/81 "2006-01-29T22:58:39Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > It’s time to comport yourself as a gentleman and a pragmatist, accept the decision of the majority, and save your mental energies for a battle at which you’ve a reasonable chance of success. > > Clear now? Just because his opposition won’t suceed doesn’t mean he’s removed of his moral obligation to try anyway (assuming he’s doing this because he gives a damn and not just to pander to the left) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/82 "2006-01-29T23:05:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: See above. Sorry I missed your post, but even if I saw it, if you think I am a conservative you must have a worse problem than I do on Kerry. & Kennedy. Are you telling me you don’t consider them Liberal? What is liberal then, Socialist? I am lost. **DianaG** : I think many moderates did vote for Bush because they saw him as tougher on Terrorism or thought Kerry was too out of touch. There is a phenom in voting, it is also a popularity contest. Bush & Clinton both come across as people that would be good to have at a BBQ or go to a ballgame with. Gore & Kerry do not. Kerry’s attempt to appeal to the "Common man was to go duck hunting, upon returning he was asked about the RedSox winning and his reply was “I am positively Giddy”. This phrase would lose much of the Common Man. Kerry is very rich and acts very rich. Bush is Very Rich and acts like a Good Ole Boy. Guess which one plays better. Again I voted for Kerry but I read enough and watch enough to have zero respect for Bush. Is it possible that many did not read or watch enough? **Diana** , please tell me who you think should Represent your party next election. **Weirddave** : I hear you and I am afraid you are right. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/83 "2006-01-29T23:09:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😛😛😛 > > Trust me, if the “lefter wing” of the Democratic Party gets to choose the 2008 nominee, John Kerry will **not** be our choice! Exactly. Let’s face the facts here: Bush energized and excited his right wing “base”, but the converse is not true for Kerry. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/84 "2006-01-29T23:10:07Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Jim, that’s exactly my point. A true moderate would not consider voting for GWB. Anyone who \*would \* consider voting for GWB is lost to the Dems, and they need to forget them. Over 50% of the voters voted for Bush last time. By definition, some of them must be moderates. You cannot define the center except in reference to the population. If anyone who voted for Bush is lost to the Dems, then their only chance is to get more people to vote. I don’t believe that. If the Dems want to win, they need to recognize that, too. Some issues are not as simple as a right/left dichotomy. For example, where does “balance the budget” fit on the left/right scale? ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/85 "2006-01-29T23:40:28Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > **Plynck** : You are correct, the pair from Mass. is acting in a proper manner but I do feel it would hurt the democratic party if they didn’t come out and say they wouldn’t support the filibuster. I dislike both Senators from Mass, and I guess this is obvious though from my post. > I would like to see either a moderate Republican or a moderate Democrat on the ticker next time. The last Election was a true Liberal vs. a true Religious Conservative. My worst case scenario. > > Jim Wow. Double negative. It’s an indication of how sluggish I am that it took a few readings to get the point of your first sentence. 😉 To me, the trouble is that Kerry _wasn’t_ the True Liberal in the last election. He may have been at one time in his political career, but by the time he decided to run for the presidency, he was adjusting his attitude and his platform to get the vote. Like the vote for the war in Iraq; that one backfired on him. He also waffled on gay marriage, to my mind, again with an eye on the Presidency instead of his own constituency. I agree with your point about Kerry coming off as an elitist, compared to Bush’s common man. Clinton was able to bring that off, and he did it well. Surprisingly, Gore was able to come off as a common man \*after \* the damn election. If he’d been able to show that before, he might have done better. My comment about voting for McCain is that, even though I disagree with a lot of his views, at least I respect him and think that he could help bring some unity across the aisle. And if he took office, I don’t think that he would have had the arrogance to think that he had a mandate to indulge every whim, at the expense of human rights or the constitution. I think that Democrats are getting more and more angry at being pushed further and further right, and still not getting anywhere. ( **Weirddave** , what socialists and nutjobs do you see with any control these days?) It’s conceivable that the party could unite under someone who is truly liberal, but I just don’t see that candidate on the radar screen right now. I don’t particularly want to see a moderate in office, but I think that that may be the only scenario where the Democrats could take office again. Well, after two terms of GW, even a moderate will feel like moving to the left… ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/86 "2006-01-29T23:46:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😛😛😛 > > Trust me, if the “lefter wing” of the Democratic Party gets to choose the 2008 nominee, John Kerry will **not** be our choice! > > It never fails to astonish me how American conservatives view the left side of the spectrum through the wrong end of a telescope. Can’t make out essential distinctions to save their lives. Is it not true that the nominee will have to appeal to the “lefter wing”? I didn’t predict he would be the choice. So help me do some distincting … ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/87 "2006-01-30T00:07:54Z")
> [@Plynck](#): > > ( **Weirddave** , what socialists and nutjobs do you see with any control these days?) Howard Dean. YEEEEEAHHHH! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/88 "2006-01-30T00:32:53Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > Sorry I missed your post, but even if I saw it, if you think I am a conservative you must have a worse problem than I do on Kerry. & Kennedy. Are you telling me you don’t consider them Liberal? What is liberal then, Socialist? > I am lost. Try Dennis Kucinich. Who, as one of his supporters in 2004 advised me, is **not** a socialist. Which disappointed me, but I replied, “He’ll do until one comes along!” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/89 "2006-01-30T00:34:22Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Howard Dean. YEEEEEAHHHH! :rolleyes: Not far left of Kerry, and **considerably** to the right of Kucinich. Not much of a liberal at all, really. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/90 "2006-01-30T01:31:57Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Howard Dean. YEEEEEAHHHH! Yeah, Dean is a socialist. :rolleyes: Only if opposing the Iraq war = being a socialist. If that’s true, then I guess I’m a socialist, too. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/91 "2006-01-30T01:42:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > People like you are doing great damage to a country, and world, that I love very much. I think you even know it. Now try to accept a little responsibility, willya? I do take responsibility. For exercising my right to vote for the candidate of my choice. That’s not doing any great damage to the country, or the world. It’s a fundamental building block of our system of government. Sure, you don’t like the outcome, but so what? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/92 "2006-01-30T01:50:13Z")
> [@Plynck](#): > > …snip… > Well, after two terms of GW, even a moderate will feel like moving to the left… After two terms of GW, McCain, who is to the right of me, will be a move to the left. Rudy G would be a large move and Obama would be a continental Shift. 😉 Jim ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/93 "2006-01-30T03:14:14Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Yeah, Dean is a socialist. :rolleyes: I never said Dean was a socialist. “Nutjob” was an option too, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/94 "2006-01-30T03:25:19Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Which makes liberals like our friend \*\*Elvis/b] even more irrelavant, don’t you think? Let’s not debate apples and oranges here. The original context was, "The liberals were wrong about Kerry being a successful candidate for President. I would say Kerry’s problems had little or nothing to do with his positions on the issues. He took a knife to a gun fight, and amazingly enough, lost. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/95 "2006-01-30T03:27:30Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > After two terms of GW, McCain, who is to the right of me, will be a move to the left. Rudy G would be a large move and Obama would be a continental Shift. 😉 > > Jim Well, see, that’s the thing I don’t understand, though. How can conservatives – not neocons, but the traditional Republicans/conservatives – regard Bush as anything but their worst caricature of a wild-eyed Democrat in terms of fiscal responsibility? Isn’t that one of the core conservative values? Okay, he’s cut rather than raised taxes – so the tab for the immense deficits being run up is being deferred, but it’ll still have to be paid. Is spend and borrow a conservative value? Another core value being reining in the power of government to intrude into citizens’ lives, yet this administration has pushed, and pushed hard, for the right to intrude way farther than any Democratic administration I can recall, and I’m over 50. Or is it simply that right wing != conservative any more? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/96 "2006-01-30T03:27:41Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Yep, that is witty and observant all right. Not. > > BTW, the whole “if you don’t agree with us, UR TEH STOODPID,” thing is really, really old. A very familiar point. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/97 "2006-01-30T03:34:26Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > Hmmm. I didn’t think that partisan wrangling needed to be defined, but apparently it does. Hoping we’re OK with the ‘partisan’ portion, wrangle: to dispute angrily or peevishly, to bicker, to engage in argument or controversy, to quarrel. > > The point here is and has been, Alito is going to be confirmed, no matter what the two from Mass decide to do. If it were close, if there was any remote possibility of blocking the confirmation, then by all means, act upon your conscience, do as the electorate would have you do and launch a filibuster. But. it. won’t. work. > > It’s time to comport yourself as a gentleman and a pragmatist, accept the decision of the majority, and save your mental energies for a battle at which you’ve a reasonable chance of success. > > Clear now? Actually, it’s very much in the Dem’s favor to make a major issue of Alito, to vote him down, filibuster, whatever. They can’t lose under these circumstances, because the Republicans’ political fortunes will then be partially hostage to Alito’s subsequent behavior on the Court, If Alito makes any decisions that outrage moderates – and let’s face it, he’s WAAAY to the right of center and will be very prone to do so – then the Dems can make a huge stink over them, pointing out that the Pubbies foisted this assclown on America on a strict party line vote, or over the attempted filibuster, or whatever, making very nice political hay. If the Dems are the least bit reasonable or accommodating to Alito, they lose this potential leverage, for little or no gain of any kind. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/98 "2006-01-30T03:51:31Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Well, see, that’s the thing I don’t understand, though. How can conservatives – not neocons, but the traditional Republicans/conservatives – regard Bush as anything but their worst caricature of a wild-eyed Democrat in terms of fiscal responsibility? Isn’t that one of the core conservative values? Okay, he’s cut rather than raised taxes – so the tab for the immense deficits being run up is being deferred, but it’ll still have to be paid. Is spend and borrow a conservative value? > > Another core value being reining in the power of government to intrude into citizens’ lives, yet this administration has pushed, and pushed hard, for the right to intrude way farther than any Democratic administration I can recall, and I’m over 50. > > Or is it simply that right wing != conservative any more? Just from talking with people IRL and here at the board, I would say that Bush has royally pissed off any Republican that does believe in Fiscal responsibility and a balance budget. But I am only a conservative on Finance so I am not myself a good Representative. I have liberal leanings on most social issues and the environment. A few people may have noticed I am Pro-military too, but I grew up thinking this = Hawk not conservative, I thought Conservatives leaned toward weak UN and Isolationist policies. I like the idea of a honorable USA being the policeman of the world with our closest allies UK & Canada. Unfortunately I believe Bush & Cheney have abandoned all honor and set us back decades. I am shocked by how much enlisted military personel seem to like him. I expect draft dodgers to be Dems not Republicans. This has bugged me from the week he ran in the primary. BTW: I actually respect a person deciding not to be drafted, I just don’t respect a Hawkish politician who then has the nerve to attack men like McCain who served with honor. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/99 "2006-01-30T04:13:33Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > He took a knife to a gun fight, and amazingly enough, lost. And whose fault was that? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2006, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943/100 "2006-01-30T05:08:04Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > And whose fault was that? Kerry’s of course. He should have realized that he was dealing with an organization that was just as ready to steal the 2004 election, as they were to steal the 2000 election. But this had nothing to do with his policies – whether he was a right-leaning Dem or a left-leaning Dem, he would have had to face the same Rovian tactics – the vote fraud and dirty-tricks are politically neutral. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-massachusetts-senators-continue-their-stupid-pontifications/341943.md?page=6)